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finnlndr
Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Flushing Michigan
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 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: How do you install a thermostat and flappers in Type 3? |
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I was reminded by Russ Wolf that I needed a thermostat and flappers in my Type 3 cooling system. Russ is shipping me all the stuff but I am not sure how to install, as the PO riped it out along with a few tins. How is it done and does anyone have any pictures?
Thanx, Rodney |
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Volksdraggin
Samba Member
Joined: December 19, 2009
Posts: 320
Location: Bryan, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| If you have no flaps, would it just be cooling all the time? Whats the point of having them put back on other then allowing the motor/oil to warm up to proper viscosity? Couldn't you just let it idle a bit longer and warm up? |
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finnlndr
Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Flushing Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: thermostat and flaps |
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| You are probably correct but I have a OCD need to do what the German engineers designed. It's a mental flaw. I know it. Can't help it. |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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I do not have the long rod and flaps. Only the thermostat, and bell crank.
I think I have everything else together, that you wanted.
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22438
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: How do you install a thremostat and flappers in Type 3? |
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| finnlndr wrote: |
I was reminded by Russ Wolf that I needed a thermostat and flappers in my Type 3 cooling system. Russ is shipping me all the stuff but I am not sure how to install, as the PO riped it out along with a few tins. How is it done and does anyone have any pictures?
Thanx, Rodney |
Rodney, I have a set of flaps if you want them. They are still in the shroud though. If you stopped by, I/we could pull it out, and you would have an idea of how they go. I'm located just west of Port Huron. PM me for directions.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69832
Location: Phoenix Metro
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22438
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:53 am Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| Not sure anyone has done a tutorial with photos so take some photos and make one if no one posts... |
Everett, I'll get Sue to post the disassembly pics later today. There are quite a few, but she was snapping shots as I was taking it apart. I think we captured the gist of it though, and it should be semi easy to follow in reverse for assembly.
It was trully a pleasure meeting finnlndr (Rodney) and his wife today. Very nice people who seem very interested in type 3s, and willing to learn and listen to stories of t-3 ownership that we all seem to have. A very good type 3 day.  I believe Kathy hadn't seen pics of Krunchy before, and was amazed looking thru my photo album of it's construction. I also gave him a couple of elbows for the heat exchangers, as he was missing 1 from the system he got from John J.
Russ, do you know what the length of the flap to bellcrank rod is? The one that was still attached might have been cut off (due to rust), but I don't know for sure. I got that set up from Keith, and the bellcrank and t-stat were already missing. I figure IF anybody would know it's length, you would. 
Well back out to the shop for me.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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finnlndr
Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Flushing Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:10 pm Post subject: flaps |
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Bob, meeting both you and Sue and the rest of your family present, was indeed a pleasure. Good honest humans with a sense of character are getting kind of rare. Sharing your knowledge and experience was very enjoyable. Kathy and I can now say that "we have been to the mountain top" and seen krunchy. I can now say I have met two famous ladies with a world wide popularity; Sophy and Krunchy.
Thanks again so much, Rodney |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22438
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Rodney, those long 6mm screws I gave you to use on holding the fan shroud to the engine case are a 1/4 inch longer than stock. You'll need a flat bottom tap to be able to use them. I forgot to mention that when I gave them to you. This, however is a mod that Jim Adney, and a couple of others (myself included) recommend doing, along with using blue loctite. These both work together to keep the screws from vibrating out and into the fan. I only say that, because they make a horrible sound when they do that. BTDT.
Also, I didn't get that other bushing knocked out of the fan housing, to give you before you left. If you find out you need it, PM me with your address, and I'll mail it out to you. You might however find that the PO left it in place, and it got powder coated. If that happened, just take a round file to it, and remove the paint off the inside of the bushing.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22438
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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O.K., amateur photographer and secretary, Sue here. Bob's back out in the shop working on "Wolfie." So, I'll put up the pics on the flap removal, probably in more than one post, so my ol' dial up, can keep up.
Reinstallation, would just be the opposite, only easier, 'cuz the rust will be removed by then.
First shot is an overview of the fan shroud, off the car, with the side that would face the engine, up.
Here the fan shroud halves have been separated for easier access to the nuts and bolts for the flaps.
A close-up of the flap to bell crank control rod attachment, to the flap.
Two (of the four-total, flap m3 or m3 1/2 nut/washer/screw combo), out. Naturally, sheered three of the four screws due to rust. But at least one survived as a sample, for replacements.
Removal of the E clip and washer, from one end of the flaps rod- you have to do the same thing to the other end.
Removal of the center support bracket special bolt/washer/nut combo.
Spreading the tabs on one of the flaps, so that the flaps rod can be removed. Repeat on the other flap.
Start of the removal of the flaps rod. Bob started with a nail, but switched to a punch and then to a long Phillips screwdriver to force (break the rust grip) the rod out.
But that was only partially successful. A couple drops of oil didn't help much either. So he resorted to a really coarse sand paper to knock down some of the rust.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22438
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Success!!
Smaller bits: E clips/ washers, special bolt/washer/nut combo and the center support bracket, and in far upper right corner, the surviving flap mounting screw/washer/nut combo.
One of two flap rod bushings.
The two cooling flaps and other bits.
Hard to see 'cuz of the rust, but there are splines that are on the flaps rod, to help anchor the flaps to the rod. One on each end of each flap (four total sets.)
Bob put the center support bits and flaps and clips back on the rod to keep them together and roughly orientated.
Interested observers, or captivated audience.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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finnlndr
Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Flushing Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject: Expert Photogaraphy |
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Sue & Bob, I know that Rodney posted a comment earlier, I wanted to add my two cents. What a pleasure it was to meet you and your family and to hear all the interesting stories of type 3's. I look forward to more stories and meeting many more type 3 folks.
For someone who just got a didital camera six months ago, you do a very nice professional job taking pictures and documenting events of the disassembly etc. I am still learning, after many years, I might add.
GREAT JOB! Again, thanks for your hospitality! Kathy  |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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You can see in this picture, how the bell crank is installed.
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22438
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Expert Photogaraphy |
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| finnlndr wrote: |
Sue & Bob, I know that Rodney posted a comment earlier, I wanted to add my two cents. What a pleasure it was to meet you and your family and to hear all the interesting stories of type 3's. I look forward to more stories and meeting many more type 3 folks.
For someone who just got a didital camera six months ago, you do a very nice professional job taking pictures and documenting events of the disassembly etc. I am still learning, after many years, I might add.
GREAT JOB! Again, thanks for your hospitality! Kathy |
Kathy, it was really nice meeting you and Rodney today. I like putting faces to screen names, and hope I didn't scare you off. But Sue is getting better and more comfortable using the new digi cam. She does have experience using it, with RussFest, and the T-3 Invasion so far this year, along with using it around the house here and there.
I hope I didn't scare you with my talk of a fuel pump problem going/coming from the Invasion, but that's something doesn't happen normally. I mean John and Brian (66311) didn't have any issues with their cars (both carbed), and Dave Pallo didn't have a problem driving "Elwood" (Fuel Injected) from Rochester New York either (we all caravaned from St.Louis to Carthage together). These "old" cars are meant to be driven, and sitting around parked does more harm to them than anything (besides PO's ). I didn't think twice about taking Krusty to the Invasion, even if it hadn't been really driven in almost 2 years. As long as everything has been "gone thru"(usually fixing PO "fixes") in the last couple of years (or more), these cars really are as reliable as new ones.
Oh, and from looking at the pic Russ posted, it looks like that bellcrank to flaps rod might be the right length.
I hope to see the both of you (along with your type 3) at other events/shows in the future.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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| Back to top |
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Air_Cooled_Nut
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3040
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Volksdraggin wrote: |
| If you have no flaps, would it just be cooling all the time? |
Correct.
| Volksdraggin wrote: |
| Whats the point of having them put back on other then allowing the motor/oil to warm up to proper viscosity? Couldn't you just let it idle a bit longer and warm up? |
No.
The ENTIRE motor needs to get to operating temp quickly. This allows it to run most efficiently and reduce wear. Also, one never knows where an engine is going to be run (the OP is Michigan) and if in freezing temps (or darn close to 'em) the last thing the engine needs is operating in non-operating temps. Letting a car sit and idle just to "warm it up" is waaaaaay outdated and does nothing much more than wear out the engine more quickly. The best thing to do is start it up and drive conservatively until the engine reaches operating temp -- this is true for every modern car on the road.
_________________
Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
The First Invasion |
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Air_Cooled_Nut
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3040
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:23 am Post subject: Re: How do you install a thermostat and flappers in Type 3? |
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| finnlndr wrote: |
I was reminded by Russ Wolf that I needed a thermostat and flappers in my Type 3 cooling system. Russ is shipping me all the stuff but I am not sure how to install, as the PO riped it out along with a few tins. How is it done and does anyone have any pictures?
Thanx, Rodney |
Buy...a...BENTLEY SHOP MANUAL 
_________________
Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
The First Invasion |
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finnlndr
Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: Flushing Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:40 am Post subject: flaps |
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Thanks for the suggestion, Air Cooled Nut. Indeed the Bentley is a great source of proper info for the ACVW. And page 5 of the engine section does show some of the automatic cooling air control details, but for me who is new to the type 3 world, the Bentley does not go far enough: How are the flaps connected, how are the flaps articulated by a thermostat, how does the complete assembly mount, what is the correct hardware needed to properly assemble, just to name a few. For you guys who have been doing this for years, this is second nature. For a newbie, it’s a challenge. Prior to Russ's suggestion to install the unit, I was just following the herd. "Rip it off and increase cooling"
Thank you for your patience. |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: |
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_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22438
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: How do you install a thermostat and flappers in Type 3? |
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| Air_Cooled_Nut wrote: |
| finnlndr wrote: |
I was reminded by Russ Wolf that I needed a thermostat and flappers in my Type 3 cooling system. Russ is shipping me all the stuff but I am not sure how to install, as the PO riped it out along with a few tins. How is it done and does anyone have any pictures?
Thanx, Rodney |
Buy...a...BENTLEY SHOP MANUAL |
Toby, he does have a Bentley (and uses it), but Bentley doesn't cover everything, and it assumes you have a complete unmolested engine (No PO fixes). but it doesn't really show the individual parts, or how they're oriented. Rodney took some pics (like the one Russ posted above) of my parts book (Russ you should have a p-mail from Rodney), so he could see how VW intended the system to be. This is a case of someone trying to restore a system, that was removed by someone else, and no pics are available of how it should go back together. Bentley doesn't help much here.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Air_Cooled_Nut
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 3040
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, my bad. Just used to people poo-pooing the shop manuals.
_________________
Toby http://www.aircoolednut.com/
Did I mention that I'm an original Darksider?
'72 VW Squareback, 2007cc, GB 5-speed, rag top; '76 VW Riviera Penthouse Sundowner 2.0L; 2015 Audi S5 Cabby w/Stage II APR; '06 Ducati Sport Classic 1000; '14 Ducati Diavel Strada
The First Invasion |
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