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E-10 Gasoline and the Waterboxer
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: E-10 Gasoline and the Waterboxer Reply with quote

MTBE is being phased out, and E-10 is taking its place. The changeover is complete here in Germany as of today. My question is this- Does anyone know if this new fuel is ok for use in this old-assed engine? I don't know what to do if I can't fill up with Super Plus (107 RON)!
From Wikipedia:
The use of ethanol blends in conventional gasoline vehicles is restricted to low mixtures, as ethanol is corrosive and can degrade some of the materials in the engine and fuel system. Also, the engine has to be adjusted for a higher compression ratio as compared to a pure gasoline engine in order to take advantage of ethanol’s higher oxygen content, thus allowing an improvement in fuel efficiency and a reduction of tailpipe emissions. The following table shows the required modifications to gasoline engines to run smoothly and without degrading any materials. This information is based on the modifications made by the Brazilian automotive industry at the beginning of the ethanol program in that country in the late seventies, and reflects the experience of Volkswagen do Brazil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_ethanol_fuel_mixtures#Modifications_to_engines
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Vango Conversions
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ethanol kind of sucks but most engines can handle it all right. expect to change out your fuel lines more often, or to use a teflon lined line. You'll get slightly worse MPG as alcohol has only about half the energy as gasoline (E10 would have about 95% the energy of straight gasoline) Ethanol has a very high octane rating, which is why you see the mention of engines using a higher compression ratio, but they mix it with lower octane gasoline to bring the octane back up to the original rating, so the octane rating is still what it is.

Alcohol absorbs water, and it's possible for it to absorb a bunch of moisture and then when the temperature changes, the fuel will reach it's saturation point and all of the water/ethanol will separate from the gas, leaving you with a nonburnable corrosive water/alcohol mixture in the bottom of your tank and a bunch of low octane fuel on top of it.

Basically if you use your van a lot and run a bunch of fuel through it you'll be okay, but E10 won't store very well, especially when the seasons change.
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Rhinoculips
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For as long as I can remember, the fuel in Colorado is E10 in the winter months and IIRC summer it's straight gasoline. Thus, my Westy has been running E10 every winter for the last 20+ years. The only side effect I have seen is a loss of 3-4 mpg's in the winters.
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Mzwo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to VW, nearly all models can handle E10. There's a few exceptions, see here: http://www.volkswagen.de/content/medialib/vwd4/de/...eutsch.pdf.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the use of SAE 30R9 feul hose is highly recommended this is the flouropolymer (teflon like) lined hose that the other poster mentioned. regular fuel injection hose (non-lined) will degrade with the use of alchohol fuels, I replaced all my lines , even that on the evap cans with 30R9.
this fuel is bad stuff, and only exists becuase some boozo politicians are getting kickbacks from the corn lobby. worse milage, short shelf life, and damage to older cars is the result, oh and dont forget it cost more per gallon. the other effect is an increase in corn prices, which means an increase in meat prices, and even bread (as farmers switch from wheat to corn crops) this has lead to food shortages in some third world nations, where food is a major portion of poor families budgets.

this crappy fuel is forced on us by politicians, it is doubtful if there is any enviromental benifit from it, as the corn used to make it requires lots of deisel use for the tractors, oil or natural gas to process it into alchohol (a very heat intensive process) and petroleum based fertilzers used to grow it, and lots of herbacides and insecticides are released into the enviroment to grow it. It is nearly the same enviromental disaster as the MTBE that was forced on us.

besure to vote out of office any politicans that support this fuel additive, it is bad news all around.

the replacement of fuel lines with the lined type can cost over $100 just in materials. this hose is not cheap.

the consumer is screwed by this, however there is a bright side to this.... Some government subsidized corn and alchohol producers are laughing all the way to their bank, along with their politican friends

when it is time to vote, besure to ask who supports mandated alchohol use in motor fuel, and then vote them out. tell your friends and family too.


Last edited by bluebus86 on Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mzwo
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this, of course, is true. biofuels are not the way forward, in my opinion.
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Sir Sam
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mzwo wrote:
this, of course, is true. biofuels are not the way forward, in my opinion.


Algae biodiesel, biomass, and to a lesser extent SVO are all more viable options than corn ethanol.

Of course CNG would be the easiest "alternative fuel" out there.
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Skip Laubach
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drove three tanks (filled the fuel tank three times) with ethanol-free gas in Wisconsin last weekend on a drive from Illinois to Door County, Wisconsin (Potawatomi State Park). What a difference in engine runnability!

On the drive up (E-10 premium gas) we experienced questionable idle conditions and intermittent, brief power losses at speed (corrected each time by a jiggle of the gas pedal).

After filling with no-ethanol premium I noticed an immediate calming of the idle and no "jerking" at speed. What a wonderful difference in the sound and feel of the motor! It seems (with the exception of some counties) that no-ethanol premium is readily available at most gas stations in Wisconsin. In Illinois the availability of no-ethanol is very few and far between. I know of no stations in the Chicagoland area where it is available (I hope someone chimes in with a correction).

What is the best additive to add to a tank of E-10 gas to improve runnability?
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kamzcab86
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skip Laubach wrote:
I know of no stations in the Chicagoland area where it is available (I hope someone chimes in with a correction).


For a list of E-free gasoline: http://pure-gas.org/ (Chicago not on the list, but lots of stations around IL).

Skip Laubach wrote:
What is the best additive to add to a tank of E-10 gas to improve runnability?


I use this stuff:

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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E free is sold three blocks from my shop...good stuff Exclamation
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