What fresh hell is this (fire?)

[blyhigh]

1989 Syncro Westy. New GW 2.3 installed in June along with a rebuilt tranny. Has 5K on it now. Took it for a short spin the other day and when I stopped i noticed a grayish smoke wafting up from the rear of the van. Smelled like hot oil and seemed to becoming from the passenger's side. I took a quick look in the wheel wheel well and holy moly there was a red glow visible just forward of the engine. I ripped the Halon fire extinguisher from it's bracket and hit it hard. I then removed the mattress and deck lid and did the same. At that point all I could see was something smoldering just aft of the starter. Had the van towed home and took a look the next day. I couldn't see anything 'burned' just frayed fuel tank insulation around the red wire connected to the starter.

I didn't think the insulation could catch fire, but even if it could I don't know what would have become hot enough to ignite it. And why now? I found no leaks of gas, oil or tranny fluid. I plan on having it towed to a mechanic but right now I'm afraid to even start it.

Anybody got any idea what might have caused this?
_________________
'89 Syncro Westy

[dobryan]

What is the condition of the wiring in that area? Possible short?
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[syncrodoka]

Check that the gas tank strap didn't wear a hole into the fat main lead to the starter.

[harvgwen]

I had the insulation on my ‘97 Range Rover catch fire. It did have some oil in it though. It seems to have ignited from a bad plug wire adjacent to it.
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1986 Westfalia Vanagon, 2.2 Subaru
Okanagan Valley, British Columbia

[MsTaboo]

Maybe post some clear pictures of the area and the engine compartment.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec

The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
When you stir up shit you're bound to get some on yourself.
Resist Kleptocratic Oligarchy (and Idiocracy)!

[jlrftype7]

If you already haven't done it, disconnect the battery to prevent any shorting leading to another fire if a main battery cable is compromised from chaffing.
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[jlrftype7]

[DanHoug]

the likely suspect is the cable from the alternator to the starter has shorted to the body.. OR:

- your starter stuck on and was red hot

- your transmission ground is shot and your alternator current was grounding out thru the brake lines

- exhaust caught something on fire
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[MsTaboo]

[DanHoug]

[blyhigh]

Hey, thanks all. I took a closer looks and found what looks like the power wire to the starter melted.

Now the question is why?
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'89 Syncro Westy

[MarkWard]

To my eye, it doesn’t look like the stock cable. It also looks undersized, but I’m looking on my phone. As suggested, if the starter stuck on, you might not hear it and it could overheat the cable. A poor crimp or poor connection could also overheat, but only when cranking and most engines crank only a few seconds. Glad you didn’t burn it to the ground. That is one of the few leads that isn’t fused.

[MsTaboo]

You need to get your hand up into the area not easily seen and feel around for any contact between the mounting stud/nuts of the starter cable and anything metal (like the fuel tank straps, etc). Also check for anything that burned; the red cable does look melted (or just a poor crimp) but maybe not enough to have generated smoke and see a red glow.

MarkWard makes a good point, the main power cable between the starter and battery should be a fat black cable. Is the red wire a power take off for a aux battery setup?

This is serious enough to require immediate attention before driving again (and disconnect the battery as suggested).

As for why now? Things jiggle and settle.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec

The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
When you stir up shit you're bound to get some on yourself.
Resist Kleptocratic Oligarchy (and Idiocracy)!

[blyhigh]

[zerotofifty]

Nice save, quick thinking, and you was prepared with an extinguisher. I like a good save. You done did good, I applaud you!
_________________
Sorry About That Chief.

Give Peace a Chance.

Words to live by.

[dhaavers]

Halon FTW! Good hustle, well played.



- Dave
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[Wildthings]

Could be some road debris that somehow got up in there and caused a short to ground thus burning itself up.

I had a friend get a stick forced up into the engine compartment on a jeep and it bent the wire going into the alternator to where the wire terminal touched the case, which the blew the back off the alternator. Sounded like a quarter stick of dynamite going off. Strange things happen.

[MarkWard]

[syncrodoka]

That looks like the GW alt wiring harness upgrade. You have to make sure that the nut is tight and bend the lug away from anything it can short out on depending on what starter you are running. I remember not being too happy about that lug placement once it was installed so it got tweaked, I might have even thrown a cover on it .
Good thing you ripped out a extinguisher, that is a unfused connection to the battery cable that goes directly to the battery.

[dobryan]

And this is why I have a quick disconnect on the negative cable of the battery. Accessible from the driver's seat.

Something to consider going forward.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794