Looking at buying a Vanagon

tkgeorge_99 · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:14 pm Post subject: Looking at buying a Vanagon

I am thinking of taking the plunge into the world of vanagons. I have heard all sorts of advice so I figure some more won't hurt.
Do I need to stay away from all pre 1988 due to head gasket problems?
Is the manual transmission better than the automatic?
What is the normal gas milege- I have heard all sorts of numbers?
How much should I pay- I have seen quite a range in prices?
Should I steer clear of high miles on van? what is considered high- 200K
Are their advantages of going with an older air cooled vanagon?

So feel free to throw in your two cents. Thanks

Rocky Mountain Westy · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Looking at buying a vanagon

Ahwahnee · Last edited by Ahwahnee on Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

joetiger · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject:

I am thinking of taking the plunge into the world of vanagons. I have heard all sorts of advice so I figure some more won't hurt.

Do I need to stay away from all pre 1988 due to head gasket problems?
All water-cooled years have head gasket problems.
Is the manual transmission better than the automatic?
Not necessarily. Search "3/4 Slider."

What is the normal gas milege- I have heard all sorts of numbers?
Seems like 16 to 22 based on what folks have reported.

How much should I pay- I have seen quite a range in prices?
How much you got? You can pay a little upfront and a lot after that, or a lot now and possibly not as much after that.

Should I steer clear of high miles on van? what is considered high- 200K
At this point in their lives, at least 20 years old, maintenance and overall condition are more important that mileage

Are their advantages of going with an older air cooled vanagon?
Depends on who you ask. Parts are harder to find and they're slower and louder, but lots of people love them.

My advice is to read, read, read and ask, ask, ask. GoWesty.com has a great section of articles, Vanagon.com is a good resource, and of course searching The Samba archives will yield mountains of info.

My two cents: If you're expecting a Honda, buy an Odyssey. If you enjoy tinkering and are willing to get dirty, bloody, and possibly broke in order to have the payoff of the ultimate fun machine, then buy the one that grabs you. And try to steer clear of rust.

Everybody I know who has bought one has done so based upon an initial emotional attachment, probably because these vehicles seem to fly in the face of prevailing rational thought regarding what kinds of vehicles we should own.

Just jump in!
_________________
Joe T.

'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'04 GTI 1.8T
'04 Golf R32

"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron

"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond

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sc1out · Samba Member Joined: September 27, 2010 Posts: 141

most of the questions you asked can get you a variety of opinions and you must weigh them for validity. I think the most important question, and I propose this from this standpoint of someone who has spent the last six months rebuilding a 1984 Vanagon that was already in fairly good shape except for the engine and transmission, is what are your mechanical skills? Novice and curious or experienced and curious? Your tolerance for pain and expense will be a big factor in the results of the project. These are fairly easy to work on but they can require a lot of personal involvement or expense to have someone else do the work.
Regardless of the model or year, what the previous owner(s) did or did not do mechanically will have a great influence on what you have to do!

dhaavers · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:42 pm Post subject:

Best info I came across when I was "thinking" about buying a van:
http://gowesty.com/library.php

That said, you still gotta consider the source & do your own thinking...
...and stay with your own budget!
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

DAIZEE · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject:

It's somewhat like boating whether used or new >>>> it can be a hole (in the water) into which you pour your money. My first was an 84 Westy from (Wa. State) stock waterboxer (wbx) in exquisite condition and took it for a 4000 mile cruise thru the States. A few minor breakdowns (fuels line burst BUT no fire I was lucky). As I said in equisite condition and I just never got into it.

My second (another Wa State) that had been converted to a Jetta TD, was filthy and I became extremely attached to Scooby while fixing the inside up. Had lots of problems, all behind now (until new ones pop up) going on a prolonged 4 to 6 mth road trip and I LOVE IT! Unfortunately I have to pay to get services done so my cost factor is/was high. But I have bought 2 X 3 ton jack stands and I'm gonna get under there and tighten and keep an eye on things and plan to do my own oil changes.

Be very careful, there is a very contagious disease associated with these Vintage VW Vanagons (and they come in different models) and its called VANAGONITIS! It will grab you and its relentless But I am very happy that I've had this opportunity later in life than not having had one at all!

Go forth, look a lot, learn, don't be afraid to ask any sellers questions, if they are not comfortable with the questions WALK, don't just look for rust on the outside or underneath, look look look. Ask if they have a documentary history file. Caring owners maintain that and pass it on to new owners.

Best wishes and go forth Smile

and may you acquire the Samba Spirit. Use the search (it can drive you crazy), look at FAQ Sticky and ask your questions in here, don't let the people scare you, they really are intelligent and helpful. I am a testimonial! to their help.

All my vehicles have been manual. Thats what I like Wink

_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

J Charlton · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject: Buying a van

Before you take the leap, do a little self reflection. A positive response to any one of the following will work, but #3 will wear thin quickly if it isn't genuine
In order to own operate a vanagon you should:
1. Have the ability and willingness to learn to work on your van yourself. Its better if you actually enjoy doing the work.
2. The ability and willingness to pay someone to work on your van. There are lots of great shops out there that will do the work. They aren't cheap, nor should you expect them to be. Do what it takes to establish and maintain a good relationship with a shop you trust.
3. The ability and willingness to be able to trade something quid pro quo for the work being done on your van. This takes a lot of emotional intelligence, one has to be sensitive to whether or not what you are "trading" is perceived to be of about equal value. Doing "favours" wears thin pretty quickly.

Its all worth it if you can do it. The willingness to learn is the critical component.
_________________
NAHT hightop availability May 18 2023 -
Bend Oregon - for Oregon, California- (7 tot , 3 available), Kennewick Wa (6 tot, 1 available), Small Car Performance Fife Wa. (7 tot 4 avail ), Fairbanks Alaska (1 tot 0 avail)
Future availability TBD : Springfield Mass. Staunton Va, Florida, Colorado, Grand Junction Co., SLC probably late 2024

DAIZEE · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:54 pm Post subject:

JC what you say is true, but not all people can or must be able to trade something for repairs. Some people just have to pay someone. For those people I say be aware of those costs. Trust is something that is proven over time and it is not always evident. The points you make are important but they are your points and your opinion just as many have voiced their opinions, feelings.

I'm not clear why emotions play such a role in your post. We are all people and our needs and how we live our lives is very individualistic. If someone wants to cry when they are happy and laugh when they are sad, that is not ours to judge. The needs of the individual are what defines us and that doesn't necessarily define Vanagons. Not all people are wrenchers, some can learn, some will never learn.

I think the important thing is to find someone who answers your questions so that the answers meet your needs, not that of the answerer. I'm not going to get into flaming here but at least one of your points is just not important at this stage. You don't know the OP and to talk about emotional intelligence and trading favors steps over a line. I'd have to "sell" myself to trade favours. Willingness to learn is sure important but again different people learn different.

By all means arm yourself with JC's 3 suggestions but don't be confined by them.

Finding a shop is important. I will be returning to my long term (many decades) old mechanic for most of my normal needs. I unwisely left him almost a year ago but I have learned a lesson & he's good & most of all I trust him. I do have a Diesel expert I trust explicitly and I learned that over time and with experience and I know he'll always be there if I need him again. There may be one or two major jobs I will chose to get done in the future but now all I want is the road!

I'm going to stand on a line here and its not to scare the OP off. Having a Vanagon is not for the feint of heart but it does require a heart, experience and the right smarts AND the ability to learn from your mistakes and to accept help of others if need be. I would have been better off IF I had listened to me a long time ago and for sure if I had known of Samba long before I did Wink

.

Hopefully you are going to find THE right one for you.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

PNWesty · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject:

A lot also depends on your intended end use. Big difference between hauling friends around on weekend to daily driver to weekend Westy camping rig to 6 month 4000 mile roadtrip van.

We bought our Westy recently knowing that the memories of camping with kids would be priceless. We got a van with a lot of service records but I still expect to pay for upkeep and problems, and probably engine rebuild/swap at some point.

These are all old vehicles so even stupid things break. I was rolling down the window last week and the crank handle broke - metal must have been fatigued. It'll be under $10 to replace, but it's not the first time I've rolled my eyes in the 6 months we've owned it when sometime stupid happens.

vanjoe · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject:

One of the most important question is are you going to do the work on it yourself or have a shop? If you do the work yourself my personal opinion is they are fairly reasonable to own. Once you get all of the common problems fixed and you do a good up keep on it it will get even less expensive to own. My in laws live in Marysville and I have taken my van up there numerous times. It is amazing how many people like my van when I am up there. I personally like the 86-91 with the 2.1. I like the headlights better than the round. It is just personal preference. My next van will be a Carat with all the options because I like all the power options and cruise control. I will also get an automatic. Everyone has there own taste when it comes to our vans. That what makes them so unique. You definately don't want an air cooled living in Sac. I know what the summer is like up there. I lived in Marysville for 7 years. Good Luck and hope to see you cruising.

I am Wildcat · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:17 pm Post subject:

You really need to decide on your own, what it is you are looking for out of a Vanagon and if you have the time/money/effort to throw into it to make your dreams a reality.

My wife and I lurked on TheSamba classifieds and forums for almost two years before recently taking the plunge on a 91 Syncro. We were looking for a van that already had most of the work done, since neither of us have any mechanical experience. We are both eager and willing to learn, but knowing what we don't know, we knew that we would have to spend some money on upkeep. Since both of our other cars are fully warrantied for over 2 more years and we don't have kids yet...we don't mind spending money on taking care of our baby (the Syncro).

In addition to our lack of knowledge, the van also began it's life in Europe and has a 1.9L VW TD engine, so we knew before we bought it that parts would be even harder to come by. For example, it took 2 days for my local shop to find a seal that I needed and it will take another 4 days to get it here. Since it's not my daily driver, I can wait that week.....I don't want to, but I can. Since I knew up front that parts may be hard to come by, I accepted that fact before I bought the car.

Having said all that, our van is even more incredible than we ever dreamed it could be! So for us, we are very happy with our decision. So like I say, just look at what you want to get out of it and what resources you have to make it happen and decide if now is the right time for you. Even if now isn't the right time, that doesn't mean you can't make your dreams come true.
_________________
No more van. Wildcat has a new home.
1997 Land Rover Defender 90
2005 MB SL55 AMG
2014 Tesla Model S P85+

Corwyn · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject:

DON'T DO IT! STEP AWAY FROM THE VAN! Very Happy

You will become obsessed, possessive, proud and amorous with your Vanagon!

It will take precedence over your friends, food, water, air and prosperity!

You will find yourself in the most beautiful corners of the world, enjoying peace, tranquility, a dry camp off the ground and out of reach of the bugs.

You will meet new friends, learn new skills and belong to a community of people who will bend over backwards to help you.

Wait . . . what am I saying? BUY IT! Very Happy

_________________
'90 White Westy ("The Longship")
FAS Gen V 2.0
The Annual Baja Rally
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604813&highlight=baja

"If anything's" gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there"
~ Captain Ron ~

87vanagon · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:16 pm Post subject:

I got my first Vanagon a little less then a year ago unexpectedly, it was basically given to me by a friend who didn't want nor have the time to deal with the problems it was having. This was by no means my first VW and have been riding/driving in this friends other Vanagons for years.

That being said it is by far my most favorite VW I've ever owned and wouldn't trade it for the world (except for a Synrco), it is my daily driver and yes it has emptied my bank account at times, but has always been worth it. I am a licensed mechanic so I do all my own work, which save some money. I also enjoy working on the Van more most other cars so thats helps out too.

So you need to ask yourself- Do I have the time, money, energy, and desire to own a Vanagon? The best part about these Vans is the personality, which each one has its own, and the ability to make them your own with all the options that are out there.

So my two cents is if you answered yes to at least 3 of the items above then go for it and enjoy, we always here to help when things get sticky.
_________________
Nick
1987 2.1L Vanagon GL- Daily Driver

tkgeorge_99 · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: awesome- lots of good advice

thanks for all the replies. It gives me some things to think about. I recently got into VWs with a 66 baja bug. I do all the work myself and feel comfortable doing work on it.
More background on what I want out of the vanagon. I am wanting one with the purpose of doing road trips and backcountry traveling. I am trying to convice my wife that we need a "crappy old van" instead of the newer SUV she would prefer. She grew up with older unrealiable cars so my fascination with older unreliable cars is hard for her to understand.
I am on a pretty tight budget so I can't afford to buy one that has been super cared for. I plan on doing work myself but am a little intimidated. They look fairly fixer friendly but I'm not sure.
In my area- northern california- I have seen several recently for sale in the 2K range. They seem to have 100-200K miles, appear to be running okay, and registered. Not alot of records on rebuilts etc but running okay.
I want to get it ready for some backcountry stuff. Just dirt roads, nothing crazy. some good camping type stuff. So thanks for advice and anyone else- toss in your two cents.

DAIZEE · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:36 pm Post subject:

Now he tells us he's a mechanic Exclamation

Good for you. I've seen it said in here to watch out for the low mileage ones, especially without a history as they often haven't had any work done and they may be due. I'm thinking your wife will like it once you get it on the road and can go places and sleep over et al. I absolutely can't do tent camping anymore and this opens a new world.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

tkgeorge_99 · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: Bargin or disaster

1982 vanagon
100,000 Miles.
Stero CD
In garage for 16-years.
ALL ORIGINAL.
Runs New and new tires
Automatic trans Asking $1800

Looks good- guys says it was last registered in 1994 and has sat in garage for last 15 yrs. says he has been driving it around without problem past few weeks. Is it a bargin or a time bomb?

DAIZEE · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:25 pm Post subject:

Diesel, wbx or air cooled.? Well no it can't be a wbx in 82 but it is an air cooled or possibly diesel.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

tkgeorge_99 · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:00 pm Post subject:

I'm not sure the motor type- not diesel though.

vanjoe · Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:41 pm Post subject:

Tkgeorge me and my wife have a Suburban and the Vanagon. We drive the Vanagon everywhere. We have not driven the Suburban since October. My wife has become very attached to the van. Especially with the gas prices sky rocketing we are probably going to sell the Sub and buy another Vanagon. So if you are having a hard time convincing your wife you can PM me and have her talk to my wife. The cost of ownership compared to a new vehicle will still be cheaper and the Vanagon is always have a better resale value in the future. Also if you are willing to travel there are a lot of Vanagons for sale throughout Cali on Craigslist for good buys. I bought mine for $650 with $527 in back fees and I have put maybe $1000 in some of the needed repairs. It runs great and is very reliable.
_________________
1990 VW Vanagon tin top weekender Carat
1998 Mercedes S420

"Why is there never time to do it right the first time, but there is always time to do it twice?"

"Back to the basics!"


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