Voltage regulator

[garra]

Over the past couple of years I have gone through 2 deep cell AGM batteries that I had purchased from Cabelas. Good part is that they were replaced free of charge each time,but i am wondering what is killing them. Yesterday when i installed unit number 3 I hung a meter on the line coming from the engine charging system to check the charging voltage, it was 16.2v. Now the specs for this battery say to charge between 14.4-14.8v so maybe I am overcharging the battery and killing them. I was looking at replacing the voltage regulator on the van, not sure what they are set to or if that will address the issue, any help out there??.
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1984 Vanagon Country Home Camper, 4 sp

[raoul mitgong]

Looks like you already found your answer. A friend's VR failed on the high V side as well. Seems to be the mode of failure for these. His first indicator was that he could hear his battery boiling and could smell rotten eggs (sulfur).
-d
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84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim))

[PDXWesty]

I purchased an adjustable voltage regulator off ebay and was able to dial in the voltage I needed. Only around $20.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[E1]

^^^ Would love to know more info about this! ^^^

Our failed regulators have done similar, throwing 17 volts out right before the end -- but in surges you have to patiently watch for.

We have AGMs for house power and the overcharge never killed them. Interstate lead-acid starter battery that we demand almost nothing from, it did.

Alternator was a NAPA so I had them test it and he said "No problem," then "Whoa, 17 volts!!!"

Alternators have been reliable for us but not voltage regulators, clearly the weak link in our case. That said, we clearly demand way more from alternators than our friends in Germany designed for (by a lot).
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1984 Westfailure/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s
AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." — Colin Chapman

Jonathan Weisheit, Race in Peace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3dS7xiFn7I&t=500s

[PDXWesty]

I believe this is the one. Replaces Bosch 1 197 311 021 which is the one for our vans.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voltage-Regulator-Bosch-Au...Z1EGn9GV7g
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[garra]

thanks for the confirmation of the problem. New VR ordered, but too too late for my trip next week.
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1984 Vanagon Country Home Camper, 4 sp

[garra]

Since we were planning on leaving in a couple of days I decided to repair the VR so I wouldn't do any damage to the batteries on our trip. Went to O'Reilly's and bought a new VR, hesitated as it was made in China, but no one else in town had one. Installed the VR and it read the same, actually a bit higher at 17V. There were some differences on the contact that hit the leaf contact in the alternator was shorter by about 1mm. I then installed the original back in there and it read the same as before about 16.5 V. I had recently bought a new meter with a AC/DC clamp that I had never used yet. I checked the voltage with the new meter 14.8V. Cursed a bit as now I had a VR that cost me $58.00 that I couldn't return.
Chalk another one to experience another part to carry as a spare.
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1984 Vanagon Country Home Camper, 4 sp

[DanHoug]

digital meters have burned me before too... even nice meters will read inaccurately with weak batteries. and some meters are just crap.

-dan

[Abscate]

A VOM is a tool you use to save $125 an hour, so a $10 one from HF has its place, it's just not in the workshop.

There is no fluke here.
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🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🍊 🍊 🍊

[PDXWesty]

If I remember, you need to have 14.7v minimum at the battery, not at the alternator, to properly charge an AGM battery. With headlights and any accessories turned on, your voltage will drop below that.

So if it wasn't high voltage, what's killing your batteries?
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[E1]

For me, the question's "Why is the new regulator putting out errantly-high overcharge just like the old one?"

Unless I missed something, it's still the same overcharging issue that's killing the battery.

I will say that in 49+ months on the road with four alternators, not one has ever shown above 14.6 and that was a new Bosch.

Point being, our AGMs have on average been getting maybe 14 volts and charge just fine on that. But you do make me wonder what we might gain (or blow up) if the alternator put out 15V.

But I suspect your comment is more related to battery charging from sources beyond an alternator. Tonight we're at one of the few powered campsites we've ever stayed at, and times like this I want an onboard charger to de-stress the alternator a spell.
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1984 Westfailure/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s
AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." — Colin Chapman

Jonathan Weisheit, Race in Peace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3dS7xiFn7I&t=500s

[PDXWesty]

He didn't have a bad regulator, he had a bad meter and was measuring false voltages. With a different meter measurement was 14.8. Just not sure where that reading was taken.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[E1]

Sorry, totally missed that last sentence!

Good, thought there was yet another Vanomaly to decipher!
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1984 Westfailure/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s
AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." — Colin Chapman

Jonathan Weisheit, Race in Peace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3dS7xiFn7I&t=500s

[Butcher]

Since the volt meter was found to be the culprit, the issue appears to be from the battery.

I would not buy a house brand battery. I have no experience with Cabela's but since they just farm out to the cheapest battery manufacturer, I would suspect that is the issue.

[E1]

My understanding is there's only four battery manufacturers in the U.S. now.

With such little competition, I wonder if we might be down to one or two if we knew which plants built the junky ones.
_________________
1984 Westfailure/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s
AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." — Colin Chapman

Jonathan Weisheit, Race in Peace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3dS7xiFn7I&t=500s

[tencentlife]

Your nose will tell you right away if the batteries are brought over about 16.5V.

You folks with a lot of money in cabin batteries (and why you would buy an AGM or gel-cell over flooded is beyond me, but that's a different subject) really should get a remote adjustable regulator from Dave Barton:

http://www.240turbo.com/AdjustableVoltage.html#external

I can't recommend this more highly. The reason being that temperature compensation is a major factor in properly charging any battery but everyone here completely ignores it. Your alternator's built-in regulator does temp-compensate, but it's in the engine bay where most cars' starting batteries also live, and unless you have one of the factory diesels, your batteries are in an entirely different temperature environment.

Since an LA cell's best peak charge point is inversely related to temp (-0.03V/Cº), the regulator is lowering peak charge V as the engine warms up, so your batteries in the cabin are being chronically undercharged. That's apart from the fact that the built-in regulators have a setpoint of 14.1 or 2, at most, which, even if it weren't lowering as the alternator heats up, is 0.4-0.5V lower than you would want with any flooded lead-acid battery at room temp.

By locating the adjustable regulator in the same temp environment as your battery, you can set it to what the battery needs regardless of the engine bay temp, it will adjust the peak charge point according the the temp at the battery, and you will get much better performance and longer life from your cabin and starting batteries.

Your expensive AGM's and gel-cells are Valve-Regulated Lead Acid type (yes, they're still lead-acid cells, guys, same chemistry, same basic charging requirements). Their peak V is usually a bit less than a flooded battery, they shouldn't be brought to gassing V because you can't replace the lost electrolyte. Regardless, you can set the regulator to whatever the battery maker recommends.

Dave Barton is great to deal with, initially I got a bad unit and he promptly shipped another, no questions asked.
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[pmcgrath]

Where to mount External voltage regulator in Vanagon?

I'm about to install in my 87 Vanagon the External voltage regulator for my alternator that I purchased from Dave Barton. I have the standard 3' length cable it was shipped with. I understand that in an ideal scenario, it would be best to mount the VR's external box near the starting battery to be at the same temperature as the battery it's regulating. Because the Vanagon's battery is under the passenger seat, that would be 8' away from the alternator and not even in the engine bay.

Can anyone tell me where in their Vanagon they have mounted their similar VR box purchased from Dave Barton?

Thanks, Patrick.

[steve244]

Do you have a link to the device? I'm curious what it does.

NM. I read the post immediately before yours. It's for the house batteries. Link is broken though.

It should go inside the battery enclosure. Except if the battery isn't vented and the regulator is a spark risk, depending on battery chemistry.

NM it's for the starting battery. I just read your post. Same deal.

But, if you're interested in prolonging battery life and improved starting in Quebec winters, get a smart battery maintainer and plug it in.

What kills batteries is extreme temps and not maintaining them fully charged.

The maintenance charger will keep the battery cozy and fully charged.

If it's infrequently used it's even more important.

If you can't plug it in, I guess a smarter regulator is better, but don't expect it to make a big difference.
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...

[bobbyblack]

[pmcgrath]

Thanks BobbyBlack.

And for Steve244 , here's the link to Dave Barton's website:

https://www.davebarton.com/
https://www.prancingmoose.com/AdjustableVoltage.html#vw