Aircooled flying apparatus

[dubbedually]

Starting this off trying to find as much info about vw engine modification for flight application and how different it is in comparison to vw racing engines… i.e is there no turning back once a case and all has been modified or could one use them interchangeable?
Would a turbo set of duals for a 2000cc car application work after it’s been used in a bird.
There has to be some type of cooling issue I’d imagine
Also if these a/c (aircraft) versions would work in a car would this one (picture provided below) be worth it if it checks out for 1,500 usd weighing in at 2000cc?

[Brian_e]

The two aircraft engines I have touched used a special machined crank. They change the snout end for a prop, and putting a standard pulley back on was not happening. So watch for that. That prop adapter on the one in your pics is different than what I have seen. They also had a neat "flexplate" just to run the starter, but they were T1 based. On a T4 it would be much easier to bolt on a flexplate.

Sorry, not much help, but more a warning to look out for that if you are planning to swap it into a car.

Brian
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[modok]

The VW engines were useful as experimental aircraft engines because they are large displacement VS weight, and low profile, thus a prop could go right on the crank.
Read between the lines..... it's going to be a stock engine or one modified to maximize power below 3600 rpm, which is not really suited for any kind of racing, but maybe good for a tractor or generator.

Some machining is required to fit the prop, to get a bigger #1 main bearing and maybe a better thrust bearing, and everybody seemed to do that a bit differently.

It's going to end up costing you a lot of money to convert it back
Unless you can do it yourself

[slalombuggy]

What engine case is that? It's not ACVW.

[oprn]

It appears to be a type 4 case, perhaps 914 or 912E? It looks like the hole for the stock breather box has been modified or was there a version of the type 4 that came that way? I don't see where the crankcase vent is presently or the oil filler. Maybe they take the plug out of the distributor drive hole? The heads have 4 studs on the intake so they are 412/Bus heads?

Aircraft use is the easiest on these engines of any other purpose they have been relegated to. Basically that is a stationary engine that has never seen above 3000 RPM. It's had a very easy life!

As for it being suitable for racing? It will be the exact opposite! Put it in a Bus or a daily driver car. The valve train and heads will be bone stock unless as Modoc says the cam has been changed for some stump puller version suitable for the 2000 - 3000 RPM range. I would be surprised if the internals were even balanced more than stock. No real need for it on that application.
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[BFB]

that oil fill looks like its just had a plate welded over it...

on a similar note, I have a couple books on using / modifying a T1 to be a half engine used in ultralights. you can use a whole case with only 2 cylinders or cut the entire engine in half. they would even run large bore, a/m cam and I think even talked about stroking it too. very cool

I thought a large bore, stroked, half vw engine would be bad ass on a go kart
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[Dusty1]

[Ian]

Looks like a modified 914 case.

I met a guy once that looked like the 80's version of George Jung in that movie Blow, he said he had an airplane with a Bug engine somewhere near the Mexican border.

In the famous words of my friend Zed "I'd trust a VW with an airplane engine, but not an airplane with a VW engine."

Heck, Boeing can't even build a plane that works right anymore.

I would steer clear of this modified junk.
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[oprn]

From those that know and have used them in aircraft, VW engines have demonstrated NONE of the problems in the air that they have had in cars. Why? I suspect it's because most of the problems they have in the cars are RPM related.
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[Dusty1]

[oprn]

[slalombuggy]

I've worked on 2 and 4 cylinder vw based plane engines. 2 cylinders were 94x82 as we're a couple of the 4 bangers. All ran magnetos with twin plugs. Max rpm was 2600 IIRC

[Root_Werks]

Voted for find another deal.

Most aircraft engines are built to run around 2200-2300rpms. Don't know about the VW converted engines, but you could be buying a stump puller and runs out of breath around 2400rpm.

-Dan
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[NJ John]

We had a Lycoming part at work, once. It had swing out counterweights on the crankshaft.
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[raygreenwood]

Yes, it's a type 4 "family" engine.

The very last of the aircooled Vanagons.....like 1980 to 1983 I think, used a version of the type 4 engine case where what we normally call the "breather box" or "oil chimney" in 411/412/914 and most buses.... with a black sheet metal oil separator held on with a bale and a cork gasket........is completely cast over with only a round spigot sticking out of about 25mm diameter.

Look at this picture in this thread. You can see the PCV valve to the right of the distributor with a single hose coming off but if you looking closely you can see that what's underneath it is cast over flat.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649484

But.....I think you are correct that it is actually welded over flat. And having the dipstick right next to where the PCV valve or oul chimney would be....marks it as 411/412/914....maybe 912 as well.

But of you look carefully at the bell housing on the right hand side closest you #1 cylinder you will see a 15mm-ish hole that was for the dealer diagnostic timing sensor that was installed and reading off of two dowel pins in the flywheel.

That marks it as earliest....1974 VW 412 1.8L with L-jet or 1974-76 Porsche 914 1.8L with L-jet or I think bus with L-jet 1.8L and 2.0 from 1976 on. The 1976 Porsche 912 2.0L used L-jet and probably had that hole as well.

Interesting. It was probably run/flown without all the sheet metal just like you see it. Thats would have been fine....but sitting, idling, running on the ground for any length of time....I wonder how it might have fared?

Ray

[oprn]

I highly doubt idling on the ground would be a problem Ray. Remember there is a great whacking fan on the front of that engine. It likely moves 10 times the air flow at idle compared to the stock cooling fan.
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[nextgen]

I had a friend that was a WW2 pilot and built a few air craft from scratch.
Then he bought a Kit . I asked what is with kit. He said I am 75, I will never be able to finish a from scrath air craft.

When he finshed the kit he asked me to go on a flight with him I said thanks but
no. He said it has been flying great and I have seen you racing that T-4 bug around. I said Yep but I like being able to put my flasher on and pull over to the side of the road.

He did crash and was lucky he was fine. He did pass on years later after enjoying his craft.
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[raygreenwood]

[BFB]

I think it’s funny how many ppl are hung up on this being an aircraft engine, like it wasnt in a vw before it was put in a plane.
And so what if ,as an aircraft engine, it was built to run at stead rpm? That doesnt mean it CANT run on the street at varying rpms. Thats going to be related more to ignition and fuel set up than engine internals. Most of the aircraft built vw engines ive read about will run similar performance parts to street BUT they spend way more money on better quality parts. Like nextgen said, they cant just pull over like we can so their shit better be right.
Would i buy an aircraft designed engine and slap it right in a car? No, but if price was right id absolutely buy one and go through it and tune it to run in a car. I mean aside from the crank modification for the prop , it’s not like it’s a completely different T4.
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"how am i supposed to torque the rear wheel nut to 250 ft lbs??? " - clonebug
An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't.

[slalombuggy]

I'll agree with you there BFB, but although I've never seen a T4 based plane engine before, I can tell you I'd never buy a T1 based engine to put in a car simply because of the internal modifications to the case to handle a crank driven prop. It's been 35 years since I've seen one but as I recall #4 bearing and joirnal were much larger and they had completely different thrust bearing arrangements to handle the constant horizontal load on the case.