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kwalker303
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2016
Posts: 31
Location: Denver, Colorado
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 Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:08 pm Post subject: Vanagon won't start at higher elevations |
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| I live in Colorado and recently purchased a 1991 Vanagon Carat that has its 2.1L stock. It runs amazing but when I take it into the mountains it won't start back up however, once I tow it back to Denver its like magic and fires right up. It's sounds like its not getting enough power from the battery but that doesn't seem to be the case since we checked it and also hooked it up to a charger when I was stranded (Also tried to jump it, didn't work) also a little ether in the air filter didn't help either. It will sometimes fire but only gets up to about 500 RPMs and will gradually die. I took it to a highly recommended VW mechanic who went through it and couldn't really determine what was going wrong. Not sure exactly what he all checked but he did put a new O2 sensor in since he said that might be the issue. Unfortunately I took it back out and the same thing happened. Any ideas out there on whats going on? |
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hans j
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Joined: May 06, 2006
Posts: 2745
Location: Salt Lake City UT
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon won't start at higher elevations |
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How long do you wait to try and start it while in the mountains?
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181 |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52651
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon won't start at higher elevations |
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This has only happened once or has it happened multiple times? If it has only happened once then it may have nothing at all to do with elevation. More information on the exact circumstances of when it occurrred would be helpful. Had the engine gotten hotter than normal? How long had it been since it last ran when it wouldn't start?
If the problem is elevation related then it could be that the idle mixture is set too rich.
FWIW, the O2 sensor doesn't come into play until the engine has run for a while after starting. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32988
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon won't start at higher elevations |
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Maybe it has something to do with low temperature rather than high elevation - battery performance drops with temperature so maybe your battery is on the way out and although it is fine at higher temperatures at lower elevations, it struggles at colder temperatures as you get higher?
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
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Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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joetiger 
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2005
Posts: 5274
Location: denver
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon won't start at higher elevations |
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My first Vanagon did the exact same thing. It would start fine in Denver, then I'd take it camping at elevation and it wouldn't even turn over.
I ended up learning (from a teenage girl Vanagon mechanic in Bossier City, LA no less) that I needed to tap the end of the starter with a hammer when it did that, then it would fire right up.
She was right--worked every time. Something about the solenoid sticking I'm assuming, but why it only did it at altitude I have no idea. (Still doesn't explain your low-idle problem though...)
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Joe T.
'86 NAHT Vanagon GL Syncro/ supercharged ABA 2.0 "Pigpen"
'91 Wolfsburg Carat "Barchetta"
'02 Baja-ish Beetle "Bubbles"
"get metaphysical with it. if it's simply a means to get to and from places, it will let you down. if it becomes your zen, it can't fail you." -dabaron
"Still, it's good to be afield."--VWagabond
Justice for Megan: https://linktr.ee/justiceformegantrussell |
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kwalker303
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2016
Posts: 31
Location: Denver, Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon won't start at higher elevations |
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So this has happened 3 times. (I have an entirely new cooling system which ran me about $1500 but it works great, needle never goes past half way on temp gauge.)
1st time: Sunny March Day roughly 50 degrees out went and skied Winter Park. About a ~60 miles drive that took about an hour 1/2. Van sat for 6 hours and wouldn't start. Tried jumping it, spraying ether in air filter but nothing helped. decided to spend the night and figure it out in the morning but same thing happened the following day. Got it towed to Denver and like magic started up first try after getting it off the truck.
2nd time: Warm April day about 45 degrees drove ~80 miles to Breckenridge from Denver about a 2 hour drive. Got there and went to the Michael Franti free concert for about 4 hours (awesome). Went back to the van and wouldn't start. Got it to fire a few times but only could get it up to ~500 RMPs and then would slowly die. Tried jump starting to no avail so just said F it until the following day. Same thing happened following day wouldn't start so just towed home and the very second I got if off the truck it started like magic.
3rd Time: Lets keep this one short since the exact same thing happened last weekend when I went to Vail ~100 miles drive that took just under 3 hours. Started up first try once I got it towed home.
I'm going to get a new battery today and also clean up some of the wiring connections. We're having a random winter storm this weekend so won't be able to take it out to see if I have solved the problem. l'll try next weekend when the weather is back in the 50's. Hope this works!! |
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Howesight
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Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3419
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Vanagon won't start at higher elevations |
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Your problems all arise after the same 3 factors:
1. Fairly long drive under fairly heavy load, climbing. This creates higher temperatures in the engine;
2. Driving in salty/wet road conditions;
3. Driving in what I assume to be bumpy conditions.
I think that the problem is electrical and is made worse by heating/cooling cycles and exposure to wet, salty road spray, heating/cooling cycle, and jarring.
Therefore, I suggest testing ALL ground connections, cleaning all connections, including the positive connections to the starter (with battery disconnected, of course). Replace the ground straps connecting the body to the transaxle and connecting the driver's side cylinder head to the body. Don't even bother trying to clean them - - it's better to just replace. You can use insulated #1 gauge wire if you can't find a decent ground strap at your FLAPS such as NAPA.
After cleaning all ground connections thoroughly, TEST them for resistance - - "clean looking" is not always clean enough.
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52651
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Vanagon won't start at higher elevations |
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I think you are running overly rich. Could be the injectors leaking through, a faulty TSII sensor, or the AFM adjusted too rich. Check your residual fuel pressure to see how fast it is dropping, and if it is within specs then pull the fuel pump relay (or remove one of the wires from the fuel pump) and see if that will make it run momentarily.
You should now check the resistance of your TSII sensor as if it is off that could make your engine run on the rich side.
I don't like recommending that someone mess with their AFM so do so with great care. Pries the lid off and then paint mark the position of the big gear wheel. First off use you fingers to prevent the wiper from moving CCW while someone else cranks the engine. If it will now start then that would be pretty good proof that the A/F mixture is too rich. If you do think it is rich then rotate the gear 3 teeth clockwise and see if that will do it.
You do rotate the gear you really want to have someone check your A/F ratio with an exhaust analyzer when you are done. Do have them refer to the FI section of the Bentley so they know what is supposed to happen. |
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