CV joint screws

[jmspaggi]

Hi,

A friend of mine removed the CV joints from the transmission while I was removing other things but he didn't pay attention at what was where...

There is 2 type of screws, and there is washers. I also have small round washers (Not in the picture). VanCafe kit comes with shot threaded bolts while goWesty comes with long threaded bolts. Is that fine if I just alternate long and short? Or should shy be installed in a special order? Also, are washers go going with bolts 2 by 2 without anything specific? Last, are the small round washers mandatory? I have just 3 or 4 :-/

Thanks,

JMS

[levi]

Either thread type is fine.

Can't tell what you have, but I like the 12 point.
They get gouchered much less than the allen type.

Tighten them the same way you would a wheel ie; gradual torque application in a star pattern rather than 32 # for a bolt and then 32 # for its neighbor, etc.
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[jlrftype7]

I think Ideally, the partially threaded bolts [ not threaded the whole way] are the best for this application. I also recommend those washers under the Head of the Bolts ,to help prevent loosening of the bolts after you've been driving a long time. make sure whatever bolt you get is also the recommended Rating in Material Strength, could be 10.9, or higher. I think Van Café lists the right bolt as you mentioned. Good Guide to go by.
The plate goes with 2 bolts at a time, also a needed part as it clamps against the CV Boot and spreads the load between the 2 bolts.
The washers can be found elsewhere, not just Van Café or GoWesty. I bought mine from McMaster Carr, but not sure who in Montreal is your best bet.
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[jmspaggi]

Thanks Levi. What's about the 2 hole washer? Nothing special with it? I just put 3 on each side?

[Jeffrey Lee]

Since you apparently have a mix of various bolts and washers of unknown provenance, I suggest you take the opportunity to replace everything with a new set of the correct Grade 12.9 fasteners, especially for this high-stress, critical connection.

All bolts should use the 12-point triple-square bit, all should have Schnorr washers in addition to the locking plates shown in your photo. All the quality replacement bolts I've seen are fully threaded, though I don't know about the factory bolts. All should be torqued correctly according to the Bentley manual.

Here's a handy kit including everything:
https://www.vancafe.com/VCCVBOLTKIT12PAKTL-p/vccvboltkit12paktl.htm
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[jmspaggi]

Got it! Thanks all for the replies. So I will probably just replace them. As you say, since they are already removed, it's not a big cost to play it safe...

[Wildthings]

A longer bit can make accessing the screwheads easier.

[calo1956]

Don't forget those round lock washers, they keep the bolts from loosening.
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[Jeffrey Lee]

[Abscate]

Is this one of the few places where the lore is to torque over spec?

33 ft lbs is the number I recall, I don’t know what the Bentley says.

A cordless driver is great for zipping these down to contact and will save your wrists.

Torque and recheck torque I 500 miles or use a visual guide to ensure they aren’t walking out

On edit - fixed and clarified down below by wild things (I think I love you) and tencentlife - THANKS
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[Wildthings]

[dobryan]

X2 on the long bit. It really helps.

I have been doing CV's on my VWs and Porsche for over 40 years. My technique has always been to use a 3/8 ratchet and tighten all to very snug with the ratchet. Then go back over them with a torque wrench to 20 ftlbs, then go to 36 ftlbs. I feel the incremental torquing really helps. I have never had a CV bolt loosen... (hope I didn't jinx myself). As an aside I have never been AR about removing the grease from the bolt or hole, some are. YMMV.
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[tencentlife]

These bolts must be minimum 10.9 but preferably 12.9 grade, the ones included with new Löbro CV's and the better fastener kits include 12.9's. I prefer shanked screws to full-threaded tap screws, but in practice it shouldn't matter. The 12-pointed "triple-square" socket heads are much preferred, simple hex sockets are pretty easy to wallow out. The long key tool is easier to get into the sockets straight with the boots wanting to push the shorter one aside. Always always give the tool a couple taps with a small hammer to seat it straight in the socket first, then apply your driver, and with dirty sockets always pick at and loosen embedded dirt and blow the sockets out first.

Make sure the flange and joint casing mating surfaces are wiped clean to ensure no grit is trapped where they need to mate flat. It is good practice to do an intermediate lower torque like 20 or 25ft.lb. first to be sure the joint is seated flat in the flange, then take it up to 36 in a criss-cross pattern, and always go around a second time to be sure all are at the full 36.

The insistence by some that the threads must be carefully cleaned and dried and a threadlocker applied is anal-retentive lunacy, all that's accomplished by that is to drag out a dirty and unpleasant but easy job, time much better spent drinking. Generally speaking, unless specified otherwise all threads should be lubed (30 grade engine oil is the default lube) to ensure even torque and to attain the intended degree of elastic deformation of fasteners, that's how you get even clamping force and bolts that don't loosen. You won't be able to isolate oil from grease here, so let the moly grease get all over the threads, it's more slippery than 30-weight but these are high grade fasteners and the flanges are also quite hard, so potential stripping is pretty far past the torque needed here to ensure a reliable assembly. Long experience shows that moly on the threads and 36ft.lb. will get the job done nicely, a followup after some driving can't hurt but you'll usually find no screws have loosened, whereas you often will when a lower torque spec is used.

Likewise, we established some time ago against the insistence of a pointlessly doctrinaire hobbyist that the serrated Schnorr washers are a legacy part that might have been marginally useful back when the bolts were only 8.8 grade and torque spec was only 24ft.lb., but they are softer than 10.9 or 12.9 grade steels and therefore unable to impress them, so consequently they don't do anything at all, put them in, leave them out, it will make zero difference in your results.
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