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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: Brake pedal template and push rod length |
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For you people that may have had your pedal pushrod adjusted or you pedal cluster screwed with, here is the template to put it back where it belongs.
Set the pedal to this dimension on the firewall, and then adjust the pushrod to get the 1mm clearance at the master cylinder.
I found this while scanning the Brake manual.
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 35871
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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This is GREAT info for those who suspect both their pedal stop and pushrod may have been altered. It's also a good check for anyone with a dual circuit brake system.
Without the right clearance between the pedal and bulkhead, the dual master cylinder will not have enough piston travel to use the second circuit after the first has failed. This is a really important safety tip! |
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Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
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| Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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for anyone that does not have high enough resolution monitor to read the text, for to my web site
www.classicvw.org/gallery2
and search for "brake pedal". Due to Everett's space limits, he shrinks photos and my site has the full size image.
OOPS, my bad, it is brake pedal, not pedal cluster.
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Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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OK, I have an Email string going with another forum member in which we're discussing this very thing.
From the parts book, it would appear that there's an early and late design on the brake pushrod. The early design is a 113 p/n and the later design is a dedicated 311 p/n, and occurs about at the chassis break where the dual circuit master was installed.
NOW- the guy I'm referencing has both an early style and a late style PR assembly.
Both are the same length... the only difference is in the design of the rod holder.
Bobnotch sent him some info in regards to there being a "long" and "short" PR, and that you need the "long" one for a dual circuit master- which is news to me. In fact, I pulled a PR off a 315 pan which was converted to a dual circuit master years ago- and it, too, is the same length as both rod assemblies this guy has.
I'm thinking that the "short" rod must actually be a Type 1. Anybody got measurements on a "short" and "long"? The guy I'm trying to help says "It's easy! Bob says the long one is 15mm longer than the short one!"... but that's only "easy" if you know which one you're looking at. 
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 18042
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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The PR I have here is 4.375" off an automatic transmission square.
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Fisher wrote: |
| The PR I have here is 4.375" off an automatic transmission square. |
Is that both pieces?
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 18042
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Both pieces @ the stock adjustment is 6.375" overall.
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https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23362
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, it needs to be 153mm from the big hole to the tip. You can see the difference in this pic.
That's the same pic I sent him earlier today. If you look at the pic, you'll see the one on the left is actually in 2 pieces, as it's out of thread, and still shorter than the one on the right.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4507
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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This is a bit odd to me because the 'late' push rods I've pulled out of later cars (post 67) have been a different style from the early style.
I'll have to dig them out tomorrow and take some pictures to show you what I mean.
I'd like to have this definitively worked out before I start putting my pan back together. |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
Yeah, it needs to be 153mm from the big hole to the tip. You can see the difference in this pic.
That's the same pic I sent him earlier today. If you look at the pic, you'll see the one on the left is actually in 2 pieces, as it's out of thread, and still shorter than the one on the right. |
OK, then the one I have and (I believe) both the ones he has are correct, as well as Fisher's and the ones in my '63 and the Type 34.
The short one you're showing must be from a different Type, stuck into one of your Type 3s by mistake.
Like I said- this is something I've never run into before on Type 3.
Like ataraxia said, there are two different styles- the straight style without the "flare" design is the one from Chassis 617123 355 forward. The two designs are the same length. The earlier design with the "flare" is a 113 p/n, the later straight one is a 311 dedicated p/n. I recall that some of the later Beetles, while having a P/R that looks the same as the early T3, actually have a shorter threaded rod.
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23362
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
This is a bit odd to me because the 'late' push rods I've pulled out of later cars (post 67) have been a different style from the early style.
I'll have to dig them out tomorrow and take some pictures to show you what I mean.
I'd like to have this definitively worked out before I start putting my pan back together. |
In the picture I posted, the one on the right looks exactly like the 1 in my 71 Square-Vert. The one on the left is out of my 64 T-34 (I had to remove it from the rusty pedal assembly). The longer one, I got thru Jim Adney, so I'm sure it's a genuine T-3 part. 
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
This is a bit odd to me because the 'late' push rods I've pulled out of later cars (post 67) have been a different style from the early style.
I'll have to dig them out tomorrow and take some pictures to show you what I mean.
I'd like to have this definitively worked out before I start putting my pan back together. |
In the picture I posted, the one on the right looks exactly like the 1 in my 71 Square-Vert. The one on the left is out of my 64 T-34 (I had to remove it from the rusty pedal assembly). The longer one, I got thru Jim Adney, so I'm sure it's a genuine T-3 part. |
Problem is... the flared design ones were never a "genuine" T3 part... they are all a 113 part number.
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Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4507
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
This is a bit odd to me because the 'late' push rods I've pulled out of later cars (post 67) have been a different style from the early style.
I'll have to dig them out tomorrow and take some pictures to show you what I mean.
I'd like to have this definitively worked out before I start putting my pan back together. |
In the picture I posted, the one on the right looks exactly like the 1 in my 71 Square-Vert. The one on the left is out of my 64 T-34 (I had to remove it from the rusty pedal assembly). The longer one, I got thru Jim Adney, so I'm sure it's a genuine T-3 part. |
Problem is... the flared design ones were never a "genuine" T3 part... they are all a 113 part number. |
Okay...you both got me to go dig around in the garage for the parts.
The one on the top of the photo just came out of my 65 Variant S. It was a one owner car and most of the car had never been apart. I have the exact same part from my 64 and my 65 N. The bottom one is from the 72 Square that I parted out last summer. I also have a super short one (it's significantly shorter) and it came with a pedal assembly I bought in the classifieds. The base is the same as the top piece but the rod is a lot shorter.
Oddly enough, you'll notice that while the two parts aren't perfectly lined up, the top one is longer than the bottom one (and it has a few threads to spare). |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23362
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
This is a bit odd to me because the 'late' push rods I've pulled out of later cars (post 67) have been a different style from the early style.
I'll have to dig them out tomorrow and take some pictures to show you what I mean.
I'd like to have this definitively worked out before I start putting my pan back together. |
In the picture I posted, the one on the right looks exactly like the 1 in my 71 Square-Vert. The one on the left is out of my 64 T-34 (I had to remove it from the rusty pedal assembly). The longer one, I got thru Jim Adney, so I'm sure it's a genuine T-3 part. |
Problem is... the flared design ones were never a "genuine" T3 part... they are all a 113 part number. |
Maybe so, but it is a genuine VW part. Works just fine in my T-34. 
I was mainly trying to get the proper length I needed to use the dual circuit master cylinder in my T-34. All the reference material I had, said it needed to be 153.5mm +- 5mm. You can't get that length out of the short rod. 
I know my 65 Notch has that same pedal rod, as it's out of a 70 (as is the pan). And the short one, I think I've got another one here too.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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gimpy60
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2007
Posts: 668
Location: Just down the road
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| Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:40 am Post subject: |
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I put a dual mc in my '65 square last summer, hadda dig thru the parts boxes to make up a rod & holder that would work. don't have a clue what they are but it is as long or longer than the long one Lucas pictured. brakes work good, suits me.....
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MeeferMadness
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2004
Posts: 306
Location: Eugene Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject: Huh |
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Am I the only one that can't make heads or tails out of the diagram? Can someone shine some smarts on it for me?
Thanks |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 35871
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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The diagram is the outline of a sheet metal template. The idea is that you put the bottom arc of the template on the pedal pivot axis, and then the top edge will define the proper distance between the bulkhead and the pedal tip.
A ruler works fine for me. |
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Mike Fisher
Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 18042
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:44 am Post subject: |
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I thought we had this settled Friday @ 153mm.
_________________
https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Gary
Person of Interest
Joined: November 01, 2002
Posts: 17069
Location: 127.0.0.1
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squaretobehip
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Joined: August 23, 2004
Posts: 4026
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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So what's the final verdict, same length or roughly 15mm longer?
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