84 digijet -Fuel Supply/Idle/Vacuum PROBS GVW 2.2L -Wits End

Van Deütsch

My girlfriend is about to torch my 84 Digijet Vanagon if I go out to work on it again. (plain vanillaa no westy) I have been working on ti till the wee hours on and off forw weeks. I'm hoping somenone here has some sage advice. I will try and be brief. I've read every post here and on Bently Tech till the wee hours. I feel like every time i find what i beleive is the problem it zags while I zig.
Background: I built my engine with a GoWesty 2.2L crank rods pistons and cam and it ran really really well. Pulls great up hills and has great acceleration for the last 2 years. I've built a few engines before and ride a '85 bmw boxer cafe racer.

It has 17,000 on new engine.
Runs really rich at cold idle -lots of rraw gas fumess(explanation later)
Rough idle cold but nice when warm
will stall at cold idle unless foot on accelerator
BIG hesitation off-idle -can take two seconds to start accelerating. I have now just revved to @2000+ RPM to compensatet and feather the clutch to roll out.
Occasionaly on freeway will get a hiccup(feels like cutting out) when trying to accelerate.
Still feels like it has lots of power when warm but not as much as it used to. Hesitation does not go away when warm but car idles fine.

Tune-Up and replaced wires plugs cap rotor filter(fuel) and fuel pump (new bosch) Re-made grounds throughout car and added additions grounds. r Injectors matched and rebuilt to spec. New fuel lines throuthgout. . Replaced ALL vacuum hoses throughout . Replaced injectors connecotrs with new . Almost all connectors removed and re-maade with high quality high temp solder terminals. New O2 sensor. Added additional ground to fuel pump. Aux air valve tested good. IT GOES ON....

I was attempting to narrow down this problem but found I may have multiple probs. as follows.
* Fuel pressure test was "weird" in as the guage needle swung wildly between (I think) about 17 to 36 PSI. It was a new cheapie guage so I wasn't sure if it was the prob becaase I couldn't find a description of thisneedle movement in my resources. . Pinching the vacuum to the pressure regulator caused pressure to increase on guage but it's still swinging wildly
* Compression Test: I got pulled away so the test was done semi-cold. 1=135 2=130= 3=125 4=130 so i have a 10 lb max difference on a cold engine compression test.
** Vacuum Test: Bizarre. about 8 pounds from the fuel pressure regulator to plenum tee. bummer.

So now i'm thinking i've got horrendous valve lash probs maybe waaay over tight. But, I read here that other GoWesty had a problem with incredibly low vacuum -WHICH LEADS ME TO surmize the low vacuum is not activating distributor vacuum retartd because it's too low to do that AND! that would also mean the fule pressure reg. is now kicking out 36 PSI at idle and running way over-rich.

I haven't gotten the valve covers off yet because I wan't to get in there when it's warm and see where my lash is at ie. has the engine and valv e train worn in now at 17,000 miles so that the hydraulics are too tight

PROB #2 was discovered last nite that may explain the fuel test readings. I looked at the new bosch fuel pump because I was hearing a noise like a dying fule pump. I see BUBBLES screaming through the line at idle. (I have a clear hose there) right before the pump. I wiggle and pull and squeeze on the lines fromt eh tank outlet to see if i can close of an air leak. nope. So after extensive reading here again I need to investigate my tank and check inlets outlets. I re-sealed the tank a few years ago with all new rubber after the fuel spilling problem and was looking inside. There was one small orangy areaa but it wan't full blown rust and still looked quite smooth. I have not had any debris in my filter dump out hthe inlet when I change them....

Today I'm going out to pull the fuel lines and check the inlet and outleet and blow air back into the tank. I CANNOT find any info as to whether this tank has a sock inside what it looks like and whether that could have crudded up. I'm surmising the fuel pressure test looked wacky because the pump was shooting air through the lines.

Sorry this is long.
I'm fried.
Advice appreciated.

wbx

r39o · Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject:

Yep. Basics first. Start at step one. Keep going. If you are getting lots of raw gas, you might want to be sure you are pulsing the injectors. But, do not jump the gun. Start at square on and do the basic tune up AGAIN!. I know it is tedious. I know the wife (mine) would want to shot me too. But, you got to do basics. It took me 6 months to iron my 85 Digijet out. Do not shot gun. It is tough to guess what is going on. The wisdom of the grounds comes to mind, but you did that.. Be sure the AFM is not doing weird stuff. Basics, systematically done. Use the online Digijet manual.

You know, it is not beyond reason to suspect the pressure regulator. Check it with a vacuum pump and gauge. Use the vacuum gauge to see how it is doing. You may yet still have a vacuum problem.

Bubbles in the fuel line can just be some cavitation. You need to measure pressure and quantity according to the book.

Basics, my friend, basics.

Best of luck,
Walt...
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

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Randy in Maine · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:15 am Post subject:

Suggestion:

For some reason this thing has real vacuum issues which needs to be fixed before FI trouble shooting can happen. Brake booster lines? Intake to head seals? Heads properly torqued? Any lifters air locked?

You need to buy a real good fuel pressure tester because you want to leave it on for a few days. Buy this http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=16610&cat=340&page=1

If you have about 1/2 tank of fuel in the gas tank, try drawing fuel from a 5 gallon gas can right to the pump. Keep in mind that the 90% of the fuel will bypass to your gas tank, but you can remove the gas tank from the equation.

Wellington · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:23 am Post subject:

Take that motor out and ship it o me, as I too want to go the 2.2 route. I will give you a perfectly running 1.9 in exchange. Laughing

Van Deütsch · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 11:49 am Post subject:

I came home late last nite and saw my girlfriend out back by my vanagon. I was lucky to arrive back at that moment. She had just soaked the van with 5 gals. of aviation gas and was relaxing admiring her work while enjoying a cigarette... Shocked and in a daze, I surrendered my Nordstroms credit card and rescued the van and the 2 adjacent homes. This is getting ridiculous...

BAM. yup, I guess I needed a slap to get back to basics and be more methodical about this. I replaced everything when I did my engine build so I kinda bypassed some stuff. I'll sort out the fuel supply today so I can get it running and then move on to timing, rechecking the pressure and fuel regualtor (my volume test was good). Then vacuum checking. I've always been suspicious of that brake booster hose that takes off waaaay up front to the dash. I'll bypass it and plug the plenum also. Hook up the tach and spray starter fluid at suspect areas.

Jeeez. 6 mos. to sort our your 85 digijet. I hear ya man....

THANKS EVERYONE! I'll drop back with an update on progress asap.

Hmmmm. Swap my 2.2 for a good running 1.9... Ok. Let's work out the shipping details. The titanium rods, billet roller crank, forged pistons and supercharged 1.9 would be a good swap for my bored and stroked 2.2 Cool

My van has nothing in it except the front seats which makes it at least 1,000 lbs lighter than a westy. I kick ass up hills (at least used to) and acceleration around town with my gearing is surprisingly quick. I'm running 16 inch wheels but rolling diameter is almost stock. I suck on the freeways here in LA. I'm out of the green zone at 70 mph. trans. is next project.

Oh, that VDO fuel pressure guage setup is niiice.

Van Deütsch · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:31 am Post subject:

I pulled the tank outlet and blew hi-pressure air in. did'nt seem to be any obstructions. I got a good shot of fuel down my sleeve when I popped the line back on so I've got good flow. The return lines are good -I can hear fuel shooting into the tank.

The pump burbles when it sips at the air bubble in the pre-filter screen. I'm disconcerted cause this shouldn't happen. So I move the filter around and then above the pump so that it's bubble is at the top and the outlet is submerged. The pump likes that and sounds beautiful. So I add a few inches of line and zip tie the thing above the pump a bit. I just don't get why that bubble doesn't go a away when it's obviously donating some air to the pump? all new lines and correct clamps and all so i don't have an air leak.

I'm timing and visiting the valves today. more later..

molson88 · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject:

Sounds like it might be a faulty temperature sensor. Have you checked them?
_________________
Cliff
99 Eurovan Camper (current)
88 Vanagon GL Camper with Subaru EJ22 (gone)
83 Vanagon Camper (best forgotten...)
2012 Audi Q5 3.2L

Van Deütsch · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:09 pm Post subject:

My Temp sensor II is fairly new. at about 140 degres i get 6k ohms or so and when cold it is at the appropriate resistance. I hear so many probs with this i guess i'll just get a new one so I don't have to think about it.

Drove the van today to get it hot. I did my timing procedure but I have made some new marks. I'm supposed to be at 5 deg ATDC. I made a mark at 2.5 ATDC and one at 5 deg BTDC sandwiching my TDC mark. I had picked up something on the wires about GoWesty engines being weird about timing and vacuum and that Lucas wasn't telling folks who had bought the 2.2L package that there was voodoo involved in the timing and the engine has low vacuum. I have the stroked crank with the GVW cam that Lucas had engineered. Whatever. My vacuum at idle was basically ZERO. I used a vacuum guage to adjust timing to where I was picking up about 10 inches or so and that corresponded to almost 10 BTDC.

I also think that since I have basically NO VACUUM at idle before i adjusted the timing the dizzy wont retard timing and the EVAP valve for the charcoal cannister is also not functioning and fuel pressure is high because regulator thinks I'm haulin ass on the freeway.

So this is premature inasmuch as I gotta visit the valves to see if they are overly tight. with NO vacuum leaks I guess I either have horribly tight valves (I'm dreading what that could have done for the last few thousand miles) or the GoWesty cam has A LOT of overlap.

So after changing the timing to 5 deg BTDC to compromise between 10BTDC and 5 deg ATDC , the engine feels much snappier in my garage. I guess I'll try and see what Lucas at GoWesty has to say. My neigbors are pulling me away for beers and the bowl game. I could care less about the game but damn, they got fantastic barbeque... I'll drive it after the game. More Later.

Has anyone got an idea about why the little airpocket that refuses to go away from the pre-filter is there?? It makes the pump do the burbly noise thing (occasionally) and its new factory bosch.

Randy in Maine · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject:

Van Deütsch · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject:

Wow.. You must know your stuff. I have been under the assumption that my vacuum figures needed to be normal ie. 15 to 20 or " of Hg. I do have a vacuum retard and advance dizzy. I have never heard of those facts that this model will have really low vacuum. Seems strange to me but.. hmmm. i'll look through bently again and see if they say anything about it.

I may have omitted a decimal place when i quoted my temp sensor II at 6000 ohm but i'll recheck. Regardless, Samba wisdom dictates having a spare sensor on hand at all times so guess i'll see if I got the bucks to pick up 2. Thanks so much. I'll go back out and have another round with her.

Randy in Maine · Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject:

Just curious here.....

When you get your timing back to the spec (or whatever GoWesty suggests), try to see if you can get the fuel tank out of the equation. Rust in there can drive you crazy trying to figure out what is going on. Ever cut open an old filter?

r39o · Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:33 am Post subject:

Van Deütsch · Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:56 am Post subject:

Update: Last nite i was going through my valves and seeing how much lash the hydraulic lifters had. Started at #3 which were at about 1 1/2 to 2 turns in. all lifters were rock hard. I then go to #4 and check the intake then exhaust. I at first didn't understand why the adjuster were initially easy to turn then hard and vice versa. Then it dawned on me. The F^(*&))(* ;ing adjuster screws were squared or flattened. I unscrewed the adjuster intake on 4 and looked at it and... it was JUNK. totalhy mashed, mushroomed and beaten face with pits where it contacted the valve head. The same with all the adjuster scews. WTF? I've only got 17K on this engine. Ok, so i'm pissed, I do this great build on my engine and why are my adjuster screws beaten to a pulp? I bought new adjuster screws for my rockers from Bus Depot cause I like to have things squared away on a new engine.

I called Lucas the owner of GoWesty this am and discussed this. I bought the GVW 2212 components from them. I was thinking the only reason this could have happened was the cam from GVW was outa control on the lift profile. Lucas listened then told me the original factory adjuster screws from VW were great quality and hardness. Basically ALL adjuster screws sold aftermarket and even those from Bus Depot (where I had bought my supposedly factory German adjusters) were TOTAL JUNK. Wrong rockwell hardness ie. they look good but do not have the same matalurgical properties. IMMITATION PARTS. Lucas explained they also had gone through this and had actually shipped engines with these until they brained it out and fixed the issue. The issue is there are absolutely no correct adjuster screws out there for sale. GoWesty is collecting and refacing and hardening their hord of these old originals for their engines. This doesn't affect those with later 2.1 engines as those screws are 10mm as opposed to the 1.9L's 9mm screws.
This is why my engine is low on vacuum and developed a terrible hesitation off-idle. The valve timing is completely hosed.

So i guess there should be a warning out there. ALL AFTERMARKET 1.9L ADJUSTER SCREWS ARE TOTAL JUNK.

My fix for this with advice from Lucas: Chuck the old factory worn adjuster screws (lucky I saved em) in a drill and face the screw on a belt sander while the drill is running. Making sure to swing the drill in an arc to produce a face proile similar to the original. when done, heat to just red and drop in water to face harden the steel. I used 180 grit on the belt sander and later finished with 600 grit wet sanding before hardening.
More later...

I replaced my fuel filter a few weeks ago and as a matter of course I drained the fuel from the inlet side onto a white rag and there was absolutely nothing there. I also have a clear filter before the pump (a special hi-flo one that's basically a screen). I've never cut a filter apart but I'll give it a whirl now just to confirm or deny any possibilities.
My fuel issue (my God, I'm cursed...) one thing I did was double check the charcoal cannister and I got free flow both ways on the big tubes while closing off the tank vent line. I could blow air into the tank on the vent tube and the tank held the pressure and blew the air back out when released. I decided to take the whole tank and EVAP system out of the equation so i plugged the vacuum lines to this system. Hey my pump no longer burbles... was this system working overtime and sucking the life out of my tank (vacuum) thereby creating a negative pressure that the pump is struggling to overcome?? My non-existant manifold vacuum would probably not be enough to activate the valve for the cannister vent.

I thought vanagons were simple to maintain...

SlowLane · Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:25 am Post subject:

r39o · Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:34 am Post subject:

I hope not to be stupid, but can upgrade the 1.9 to the 2.1 parts so you can use the 10mm adjusters?
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

Van Deütsch · Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject:

That's a good idea -I could drill out and tap the rockers to accept the 10mm screws if need be. I refaced and re-hardened my old adjusters and they are in onw. all lifter s were hard except #2 exhaust which had some air in it. I adjusted thenm all to 1/4 turn in aexcept for no. 2 which I set at .006 lash to let it pump the air out per. Boston Bob article on the topic.
My fuel pressure is fine now and steady at 29 and 36. The only thing I did was remove the EVAP cannister from the fuel equation and now that crazy air bubble is gone from the filter and pump is dead quiet on run and the fuel pressure needle doesnt swing wildly. Since I reseled all the rubber on my tank a few years ago it's really airtight. So that means somehow engine vacuum is creating neg pressure in the tank. I triple checked the purge valve and its fine. ?????

So I fired it up again last nite. I had disconnected the battery to purge the ECU of previous run info. I expected alot of valve noise and it hammered a bit but the engine was shaking terribly and ran like shit.

I'm just trying to get this thing to go so I can get on with basics and tune it... I don't know if i can do this anymore. It's kinda getting embarrasing. I'm wondering now how much the collection of parts is worth on ebay...

I would pay a technician whatever it cost to diagnose this but I have no idea how to find someone who is competent. My local vanagn repair guy is an engineer from Germany and last time I went there they stripped out my drain plug and told me I had a head leak (wrong... it was a hose clamp). I need someone with a scope and experience. What to do?

r39o · Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject:

If you can get it down to OC, there is a place I know that can fix it. He has a diagonstic tool, just for the Digijet. It was broken and I fixed it. We used it on my van which had some interesting running issues. Ever since we went through it, subsystem by subsystem, it runs "marvelous." I think other than a vacuum hose I have had no running issues with it. Now I have to replace all the coolant hoses.

You sure your Sensor II is making it to the ECU?
You sure your 2 signals from the AFM are making it to the ECU?
Grounds (again?)
Your AFM isn't sticky, is it?
You didn't bone head it and swap a plug wire?
Got the cap and rotor on good?
Simple stuff, stimple stuff now.........

If all else fails, and this is what the test tool does, is to check all the signals at the ECU. The test tool always you to find out what is not electrically working in a few seconds rather than poking at it with a DVM.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

Van Deütsch · Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject:

I'm glad you figured out your issue. I wish mine would run marvilously..

The temp sensor II is new and has a new connector but I will check it's signal run to the ECU pin.
-AFM was purchased form BusDepot a few years ago. It was a rebuilt unit and has worked fine so far. I still have my old one as I didn't send it in for the core as it was still good. I'll swap it out too.
-revisited my grounds (all of em even under car and dash)
-all the simple stuff is right on and double checked.

Just read that post about the '82 westy with similar probs. He set valves to .006 and that was it.

So, the Digijet tool you mentioned would do more than I can do with my DVM? or is it just a very very expediant way to knock all of that work out of the way?

r39o · Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject:

The tester allows you to do more than a DVM. It allows you to simulate most of the FI parts. You can sub out the AFM for a pot. I found that quite useful to set up my AFM with. You can force a lean or rich run. Open loop. So on. You can actually run the engine even if the ECU is brain dead. The ECU does not do THAT much, actually. It allows you to see injector pulsing, turning stuff off or out of circuit. It basically allows you to see what works and what doesn't. I think it is pretty neat.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)


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84 digijet -Fuel Supply/Idle/Vacuum PROBS GVW 2.2L -Wits End
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