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New Karmann Ghia mulled in Brazil
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Altema
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:23 am    Post subject: New Karmann Ghia mulled in Brazil Reply with quote

It seems that a company in Brazil owns the full model rights to the Ghia, and is seriously considering a remake. A concept photo and link are below. I think it's radical enough to not get confused with an Audi TT, different enough from the original Ghia to not water down the value of the classics, but retains enough visual queues to show where it came from. Photos and link are below. I'm not sure I like the interior, but I'm kinda liking the body. What do you guys and gals think?


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Link to article: http://www.just-auto.com/news/karmann-ghia-comeback-mulled_id138645.aspx


Last edited by Altema on Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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toddb_67
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love it! It does have some obvious ties to the Audi TT, but that's not a bad thing. It is very distinctive.
What are the odds that VW will make it though? Not likely, it will probably remain an idea just like the concept bus that VW has been "considering" for years now.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...tell me how they get around the fact that VW own the "Karmann" name and Ford own the "Ghia" name.

Who are the company who will be making the car...VW?...Ford?...A N Other?

To me it's yet another pipe dream without any substance.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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http://www.concursodesignkarmannghia.com.br/

I like the number 2 'winner' of the contest a bit better.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Moxon wrote:
So...tell me how they get around the fact that VW own the "Karmann" name and Ford own the "Ghia" name.

Who are the company who will be making the car...VW?...Ford?...A N Other?

To me it's yet another pipe dream without any substance.

Seems to me that the original concept of a sporty coupe built on the utilitarian People's Car chassis was a bit of a pipe dream as well, no? Smile

Hey, a guy can dream - can't he?
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GalvestonGhia
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im a fan! seems like they miss the whole point of the VW old school theme though,... easy to work on and minimalistic!! thats half the reason i love my ghia, simple, classic, and easy. not to mentioin a head turner!!
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KGCoupe
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GalvestonGhia wrote:
im a fan! seems like they miss the whole point of the VW old school theme though,... easy to work on and minimalistic!! thats half the reason i love my ghia, simple, classic, and easy. not to mentioin a head turner!!

Who knows? Maybe 50 years from now, people will be saying that cars such as the old 2014 Karmann Ghia II that don't have a flux capacitor were so much easier to work on.
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John Moxon Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KGCoupe wrote:

Who knows? Maybe 50 years from now, people will be saying that cars such as the old 2014 Karmann Ghia II that don't have a flux capacitor were so much easier to work on.


Well pardon me but my '58 has a flux capacitor.

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KGCoupe
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Moxon wrote:

Well pardon me but my '58 has a flux capacitor.

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Very Happy Beautiful!
If I'm not mistaken, I think I may detect a very slight amount of pride in ownership there, no?

... and well you should be proud of that car, John!

Re the question of "full model rights":
John Moxon wrote:
So...tell me how they get around the fact that VW own the "Karmann" name and Ford own the "Ghia" name.

Who are the company who will be making the car...VW?...Ford?...A N Other?

To me it's yet another pipe dream without any substance.


I admit that I have no knowledge of how any of those legal rights apply, but perhaps the fact that the model name happens to be made up of two separate company names is muddying the waters.
If the original producer sells the "full model rights" to a specific model, would those rights normally include the model name as well as the design concept?

If Chevrolet sold the "full model rights" to the Chevy II, would the new owner of said rights be able to call their new production vehicle the Chevy II even if they have no affiliation with Chevrolet?
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John Moxon Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of these KG concept competitions have appeared over the years so you'll have to forgive me if I sound unconvinced...again. Laughing

I think if any of the players were going to do it, they would have done it by now. The fad for retro designs seems to have passed.
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retrowagen
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like this is a recurring echo... "Let's re-imagine the Karmann-Ghia for today!"

Even Karmann designed in-house and built one concept in 1999, generically calling it the "Karmann Coupe:"
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It even aped the traditional rear emblem:
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IMHO, none of these concepts capture the real essence of the original Karmann-Ghia - gently sporty elegance on mechanical simplicity and robustness - the Karmann Coupe is too plain, and the Brazilian and other miscellaneous designs of late are too aggressive or fussily detailled, and in either case, the epoch of the mechanically simple car has sadly passed us by. Also, one can rest assured the car would be front-engine, front-wheel-drive, which seems philosophically as wrong as a FF Porsche sports car.
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Brassneck
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Moxon wrote:
The fad for retro designs seems to have passed.


I'm not sure...I think the retro designs are in favor of smaller/efficient cars from the past...like the Fiat 500. It seems to be doing pretty well in the states. Same with the mini cooper I think. For both of these, I see a lot of them around and tons of advertising. I think that perhaps the american retro designs may be slowing down though... who knows?

Personally, I've yet to see a retro design blow me away...I don't get why they drop all the great chromed elements from the original designs...Yes, I get that weight is a factor, Plastics are cheaper, easier to produce, etc...but I think paying tribute to a classic could still incorporate the cool modern lines but keep some chrome/flash elements without making it look dated. Especially when it comes to bumpers. Just my .02
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It constantly amazes me that VW haven't produced a retro camper. The Microbus Concept from 2002 didn't take off, the recent Bulli concept from 2012 hasn't appeared. Honestly with the huge camper following all over the world, even with the VW T5 California in Europe it seems like a huge missed opportunity to me. Why wouldn't you produce a car that had such a ready made customer base?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carl4x4 wrote:
It constantly amazes me that VW haven't produced a retro camper. The Microbus Concept from 2002 didn't take off, the recent Bulli concept from 2012 hasn't appeared.


Evidently, the Microbus couldn't be engineered to be built to a price point where it could be competitive in its market sector, despite its charming design... Simply a question of Euros and Cents.

It probably also didn't help that the US sales of VW cars has been tepid, since the mid-1980's. Whereas in the 1960's and 1970's, Volkswagen was hugely successful in the US market - its largest worldwide market - as of late, it's become more of a niche brand, where only the Jetta (made in Mexico) and Passat (regionally redesigned and made in a US factory) are selling in any numbers. Golf, New Beetle 2, Touran, Touareg, and Routan have been quite disappointing, and it almost seems as though VW's days in the USA are numbered. Among my friends in California, I don't know anyone who's thrilled to buy a new Volkswagen. The last new one I bought (a 2001 Jetta, after 20 years of daily driving various modern Volkswagens and Audis, each of which was progressively more complex and proportionally more unreliable than the previous) was such an unreliable, poorly assembled, and badly-driving lump that I refused on principle to buy another VAG product, and have since bought (and thoroughly enjoyed) a Subaru, a Volvo, and a BMW.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's not forget the Karmann "Idea" concept car from 1991:

http://www.carstyling.ru/Static/SIMG/420_0_I_MC_jp...8653851C59
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in the 90s when I visited the Karamnn Collection the tour guide sent me these pictures. These look like the concept of the prototype built above.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's an easy way around the naming rights, and that's just to officially call it the "KG" or something. Just as with the Type 1, the market will call it what they want, which, with a little influence, would not be difficult to turn into "Karmann Ghia".

That said, I think the car that fully embodies the spirit of the Karmann Ghia in modern guise is already on showroom floors. If one assumes the already stated "gently sporty elegance on mechanical simplicity and robustness" with the additional points of relative economy, low-mid price point, and even a H4 engine, the Toybaru pretty much is the modern incarnation of the Karmann Ghia, just not built by VWAG.

Like the original KG, it's not really all that powerful or fast with skinny little nonsense tires. It's not super premium with plastics and fabrics everywhere. It's no pretender either. It's just a sporty looking little car that is essentially designed from the ground up for simplicity and modification. The aftermarket on these cars will be huge. HUGE. The Miata is soon to be superseded as the ultimate entry-level drivers' car (if it hasn't already been). Just as plugging a Porsche engine and some tires into a Ghia was the easy and obvious performance upgrade, a WRX STI engine and some tires are the modern analogue.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, J. I couldn't have said it better.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Moxon wrote:
So...tell me how they get around the fact that VW own the "Karmann" name and Ford own the "Ghia" name.

Who are the company who will be making the car...VW?...Ford?...A N Other?

To me it's yet another pipe dream without any substance.


I fixed the link to the article, so everyone can take a look. Apparently the Brazillian rights were sold by VW Brazil to Group Brazil, who in turn sold them to IPL Industrial. They will probably name it something other that Karmann Ghia, but they do own the rights to the name Karmann at least.
I'll believe it when I see it, but it sure would be nice IMHO...

Here's a quote from the article if anyone still has problem with the link:
"The coachbuilder’s local subsidiary was sold by the Germans and a Brazilian partner of German origin in 2008 to Group Brasil, an auto parts manufacturer, and, last year, to IPL Industrial.

Reviving the Karmann Ghia sports model is the cherished dream of Jonas Assis, current owner of the industrial facilities located a little over a mile away from the VW of Brazil headquarters and main plant. Over the years, the K G company produced the VW SP1 and SP2 model line, trailers and motorhomes, the Ford Escort MkI and II XR3 convertibles and assembled the Land Rover Defender with 40% local content from 1998 to 2006.

“The long-term project is to resume production of the coupé although it requires a partner besides improving the winning design proposal and evaluating its economic feasibility,” Assis told just-auto."
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this thread. Thanks for sharing.

Interesting timing for me as I've been thinking about what a modern interpretation of a KG coupe would look like for the past several months. I was not aware of any of these developments.

I previously started a thread on this forum with my own sketch and modest attempt at a concept design. After reflecting on my design for a while, I decided it wasn't quite what I wanted. I started over and ended up with this profile: Certainly not close to the original KG but still inspired by it nonetheless.

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It can't hurt to dream, but if I could make this car, it would have a mid engine and rear wheel drive. Manual transmission of course.
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