Engine Build - 74 x 87

[75smith]

This will be the documentation of my engine build, and the place I will ask questions if I need to.

The build as planned now, is a 74x87, or 1760cc, engine; the reason for this is the ability to open the heads for 88 pistons, or lack thereof. So this build will be a little backyard like in the build but as with alot of other people we can't afford to dish out money for some stuff, and as such we push some ideas to the side if they are unable to be implemented at the time

Parts-
Have-
74 mm Crankshaft-CB Performance 4140
CB 2241 grind camshaft
standard cam gear
CB's big foot lifters
CB's Unitech rods, 5.4" length
Clevite Rod bearings
Mahle dual thrust cam bearings
Karl Schmidt German Main Bearings
1975 Fuel Injected Case(AS21-Dual relief)
Dual 40 Italian Webers w/ manifolds
and one Stock head

Need
one more head
pistons and cylinders
push rods
oil pump
Flywheel(maybe might drill the stock one)
Carb linkage

Now this build might take a while(college and waiting for parts), but this is what I've started so far, and hopefully I can get a short block together by the end of the month

parts(Christmas Presents!! )

Case Journal Measurements

Bearing Measurements

Deck Height Tool

made the deck height tool myself, using a 1/4" peice of plate steel, and spacers for 1/2" OD steel tubing, same time I made a gear puller for the crank gears-don't seem to have a picture of it though

Now I have a 2-3" micrometer, and a 0-6" dial caliper, and have used both for the case journals, as you can see from the uploaded picture, I don't know which one is more correct, as you can see all the measurements are consistent for both tools, but compared to each other there is a slight discrepancy, and as I don't have a standard I can't test the accuracy of either tool, but opening the calipers to 2" and zeroing the micrometer to it, there appears to be a .006/7" difference between the two

Should I worry about this discrepancy as long as I don't mix the measurements between the two tools? Like I said measurements have been repeatable and consistent with both tools, just not to each other.

I will be trying to find a set of micrometers with a standard for calibration, but they are expensive! so pardon me if I must continue the build relying on the Dial Calipers!

next thing is to torque the case with bearings and measure, along with the journals on the crankshaft, and figure out a engine stand-three options for that-cut up a bad transaxle and bolt to a generic stand, by a VW one, redneck it and plasma cut an adapter ring to bolt to the generic stand and case-will have to see whats best/cost efficent
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12

My engine build

[Matthew]

Sounds like the start of a nice build.

Since you only have one head, what if you ordered a pair of new heads cut for 90.5 and then sold your single head in the classifieds? Then you could use the 88mm slip/machine set.

The 88's are much thicker so it would be worth the trouble IMHO.
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1965 Beetle sedan
Click to view image

[mark tucker]

or go with 90.5 or 92's.

[Matthew]

Then he would have to machine the case which is why I sugggested the 88 slip/machine thick-wall set.
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1965 Beetle sedan
Click to view image

[75smith]

reason for staying with the 87's is cost, my initial budget for the engine is/was $1,000, now have ~$550 into it, to get 88's and two new heads machined for 88's would set me back another $550, approximately, $400 if I can sell my head, but 87's would be about $200(got a good source for a set of forged pistons) plus the other parts I need to finish the build, oil pump, pushrods, linkage, the other head- sets me back about the same price, also this car will need to get finished, I don't know how much longer my daily will last, the rust just ate through the floor

college also eats into the budget as well, so my $1,000 budget is now the $600-or $50, because of the $550 already invested, had an unexpected bill last november, but hope to recoup that with my job during the school year
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12

My engine build

[75smith]

mocked up the crankshaft to look for clearance spots, if needed

Question: what is the accepted clearance between the webs and counterweights? I'm running .045" min. right now and I figure with the flywheel on and end-play set I should be fine-but better safe than sorry I guess

tomorrow I'll throw on some rods, definitely looks like I'll need to clearance for those-should be a .060" clearance there correct?
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12

My engine build

[75smith]

Just a small update, made an engine stand adapter

just a 1/4 inch plate steel plasma cut , then ground to fit, making sure I had enough room to bolt the arms to the outside, I'll need to make some improvements, namely some tubing so I can extend the engine out so I can take and put a flywheel on the stand

I also had to take some crocus cloth and smoothed out one of the lifter bores, looks like something got stuck in there, caused some pitting, I made sure I kept it within the wear limit, so it should be fine...but I'll guess we'll see after I fire up...when I fire it up

checked the rods, and bearings, measured them up, compared to the crank, oil clearance seemed fine so I mounted it up, torqued the rods(25ft-lbs per CB I think), and only 1 spun smoothly, so I guess I need to look further into that, I figure the bearings are riding up the crank journal radius, or something like that

Also checked cam to lifter lobe clearance, had about .045" clearance average, but was looking at the lifters, there seems to be some variance in the lifter head height so I may be able to mix and match

Tried to buy an oil pump as well, but there seems to be a little confusion there, too many part numbers, and the way my dealer looks up pumps, it's through the engine serial number, so no good as mine is a fuel injected case, but I need the flat cam style... so I'll try again later once I verify the part number

I guess that will do until I get another break from college
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12

My engine build

[crazybaja1]

Looks good man...
Waiting for updates & pics
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91' Vanagon (165h.p 2008 legacy engine)
72' Baja bug in proces
71' Squareback originall not restored
87 sinca
82 sinca
70 doka
73 bug callook
71 class 11

[75smith]

Another small update, might have found a balance shop, not 30 minutes from my college, about 2-1/2 hrs from my house though.

Looks like it might cost $250 to balance everything, like crankshaft, pulley, flywheel, gears, rods+bearings, pistons+related, etc.

Don't know if I'll go that route, or if I'll just do the Flywheel and PP($100), I already checked the weights on my rods, they were 544.3, 554.3, 544.5, 544.2, definitely within limits for a mild street engine.

I'm also on the edge of stock weight flywheel, or lightened...either way needs to be 8-doweled, I like stock, because it's nice for long drives, but lightened is good, because of quick revs, doesn't maintain energy, which is nice for city stop-n-go traffic...

also need to figure out my rocker situation, and push-rods, I know I'll need custom length PR's but don't know if I should "cheap" out and get chromoly, deal with clackety-clack, or go high dollar, get some ACN HD aluminum. I'm getting HD single springs, so both are viable solutions, I was going to get dual springs, but I'm right on the verge of needing and not needing, I figure I'll just limit my RPM to under 5,000, and spend the extra on aluminum push-rods...

we'll see, input would be welcome though
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12

My engine build

[Quokka42]

If you can stretch the budget to the HD aly rods, I'd do it. change the springs for HD and you won't need to to fit a rev limiter hopefully. It is possible to calculate if you are safe from float, but you need to map out the the profile of the cam, weigh everything and check height accurately.

The decrease in weight of the aly rods will improve your margin nicely, though.

Balancing is really nice, but as you have noticed, a lot of your rotating assembly is balanced a lot better than stock from the factory and if you don't go grinding anything off the rods or crank for clearance it should be pretty good for your rev range. The flywheel will probably be balanced, too, but not together with the crankshaft. Nothing is perfect, and it is the very slight difference in concentricity that is tne most important part of a balance job for most of us.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Danwvw]

How is your engine coming along!
What did you wind up using for Push Rods? Also did you need to clearance anything in the case?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Slow 1200]

[75smith]

yeah, that's a typo, should be 544.3, I was quite pleased that the rods were so close in actual weight with only .3 difference between heaviest and lightest

and haven't done anything with the engine yet, I'm currently at college but will be back home in a couple days, so the work can continue-but during one of my mock-ups I could tell that some minor clearancing would probably be needed-rod nuts came close to the cylinder openings
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12

My engine build

[Danwvw]

I am thinking if the rod nuts are going to hit at the opening that means more than just the case is going to need clearancing. What about the bottoms of the cylinders? Perhaps there are some rod nuts or rod bolts that would replace the ones that are hitting and solve the problem.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[ALB]

[75smith]

I'll probably need to notch file the cylinders too, maybe clearance the pistons(if I go cast) so they don't hit the crank counter-weights, It's just one of those things when building a slightly larger engine-all of this can be done with a hand file or die-grinder-it's clearancing for larger cranks(78+) that real machining needs to be done
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My 1975 Beetle Build Updated 8-21-12

My engine build

[Danwvw]

So would you just take a hand grinder to the cylinders?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[75smith]

[Danwvw]

I bet grinding the cylinders could be tricky, I have a 4 1/2" angle grinder that turns over 10,000 RPM. Bosch 4 1/2" Angle Grinder.

Perhaps the best way to grind the cylinders would be in the case or in a case.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[75smith]