How strong does an 002 tran need to be?

86burbguy

I have a 2 seater rail with a 1835 fed by a CB fuel injection set up.
The rail had/has a type 1 transaxle with a super diff heavy duty side covers and 4.86 ring and pinion.

I have killed several type 1 cv's so I upgraded to type 2 cv's and they are holding up well.

The last trip out I grenaded the ring and pinion while pulling wheelies.

I picked up a stock 002 for 80 bucks with the stamp code CA 065 6322.

I am trying to figure out if I need to beef up the 002 before I put it in and how much needs to be done. Or if the 002 is substantially stronger than the beefed up type 1 such that it would be strong enough to live in stock form in my 1200lbs rail.

Any guidance would be appricated.

mcmscott · Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:20 am Post subject:

I am not as familiar with the codes on 002's, however if it is an early 002 it will have a 113 mainshaft in it(weaker first gear). All 002's and 091's need a steel shift ball and I like to gusset the shift bracket. Dooable by removing the nose cone. If you like your turning brakes(pismo is not far from you) you will want a 4 spider diff

If the bottom of the gear carrier has an 11 mm headed bolt on the bottom you have a 113 m/s. I have seen one true 002 mainshaft with a 3.80 first gear

86burbguy · Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:06 pm Post subject:

I had a hard time finding the CA code as it is not on most lists.
I did find it on Keversite and mine has the 3.8 first gear and 5.38 ring and pinion, 71-72 model year, with a 1600.

Ok so it sounds like I should dig in to this thing before I run it.
Are the needed upgrades owner serviceable?

Dale M. · Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:23 pm Post subject:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143138

Dale
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

mcmscott · Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:56 pm Post subject:

71-72 should have a 3.78 first, and the steel shift ball and the gusseted bracket are user servicable. Sorry I dont have any antiquated links to share

86burbguy · Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:05 pm Post subject:

Having read all 20 pages of the transaxles for dummies thread...

My trans has the early style T/O bearing making it a 70-71.

The 002 gears are stronger than a DSD type 1 that I had, but equal to the SSD type 1's with the exception of having a larger ring and pinion.

So even in stock shape it should still be an upgrade.

86burbguy · Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:15 pm Post subject:

Ok, I looked up the steel shift ball and it only comes up for 091 applications.

Got no hits for the gusseted bracket.

mcmscott · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:24 am Post subject:

You put a steel shift ball in any 002, it is not nessacarily a 091 thing. And a correct 70 model trans will have a 3.80 first, and a correct 71 will have a 3.78. Look at the bottom of the gear carrier, if you see a bolt with an 11mm head then you have a 3.80

86burbguy · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:07 am Post subject:

I take it the steel shift ball is in the nose cone...

What do I need to take apart to see this 11mm bolt?
The gear sets or around the r/p?

By the CA code it has the weaker 3.8 first gear.

mcmscott · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:44 am Post subject:

Steel shift ball is inside nosecone. You don't have to take anything apart to see the bolt, its on the bottom of the gear carrier going upward

86burbguy · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:13 pm Post subject:

Thanks.

I will check it tonight. If the 11mm bolt is on the bottom of the case it has the 3.8, if not it will have no bolt?

Is the spider gear set up stronger on a type 2 vs a type 1 or are they equally weak? I am debating bolting the transaxle in and trying it out before spending more money on it upgrade it or break down and just use it as a core. If it is tight and shifts well I may just add the super diff and call it good. If it is worn out I might just send it out as a core on a rebuilt.

I looked at super diffs and they come in 11 tooth and 10 tooth options, which would I need?

Are there still VW specialty shops local to the Monterey area or would I have to ship it So Cal?

mcmscott · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject:

Most of the time if there is no bolt then it has a 3.78 first.
The spiders in a 002 are stronger than a t-1 due to physical size, I would still add a superdiff if you are going to use the turning brakes much.
I don't know about shops over there, however I have built over 1000 vw trans and am not in so cal.

jsturtlebuggy · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:05 pm Post subject:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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86burbguy · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:56 am Post subject:

Thanks for the helpful pics...

All the parts mentioned are found under the nose cone then.

Mal evolent · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject:

here's another antique link. rather less than 20 pages. The info worth knowing is in the white quote that begins with "Bruce wrote"

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=492880
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86burbguy · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:12 pm Post subject:

So is this the 11mm bolt you were talking about?

What are the shiny aluminum pieces? Evidence of resent work maybe?
The clutch fork bushing is also newer. Maybe it already has been rebuilt.

jsturtlebuggy · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:54 pm Post subject:

Yes that bolt holds the pinion bearing race in place.
The aluminum plugs are for getting to the detent balls and springs for the shift rails. The one on the bottom is for installing/removing pin that keep you from getting stuck in two gears at once.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

86burbguy · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:19 pm Post subject:

I pulled apart the type 1 I blew up to see how bad the damage was.
Took me a little while to figure out how to get the pinion shaft out.

The largest gear had teeth that were bent. Otherwise it look salvageable, not that I am going to use it.

Is the disassembly on the 002 basicly the same as the type 1?
Can I safely pull the pinion and 1-4 gear assembly on the 002 out to look it over? I will also pull the ring gear carrier just to look it over also.

Good idea or bad?

86burbguy · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:23 pm Post subject:

86burbguy

Every thing looks a lot better than the type 1 did!

The synchro's look good, not perfect but not rounded over.

As easy as it came apart, minus the pinion nut which required the use of the input shaft with a set of vise grips working the reverse gear against a screw driver to gently work it off, I am going to attempt the upgrades myself!

[IMG]http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/86burbguy/B60BA0F4-946D-44D1-894A-B26E454FE23F-8895-00000B6FECC3F442.mp4[/IMG]

I know I need a super diff, metal shift ball (mine is plastic), otherwise what do I need to do while I have it torn down?


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