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Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying?
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baltik
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:24 pm    Post subject: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

I was all set to purchase a Syncro Westy but the PPI is giving me pause... especially the leak at the transmission

some basic details:
'89 Syncro Westy ~170k miles

Original paint - worn but no rust

Tiico conversion - one of the earlier ones, no details and no known mileage on the engine.

AC lines cut at time of the conversion

No rear locker

Upgraded shocks (fox)


Post PPI Needs (I am not near the car so this is all being handled remotely)

Transmission leak - slow leak between transmission and gear box

Mechanic was not impressed with the engine - he thought it ran rough and felt no more powerful than a wasserboxer

There was no coolant in the overflow tank when the mechanic got the car and had to fill it - so potentially another leak there and potentially overheated on the drive to the mechanic?

Valve cover gasket leaking

wipers dont work

Cruise control not funcitoning

right headlight doesnt work

left headlight is cracked

several dings around the body

Needs new right upper A arm

window rubber is in rough shape all around

needs new tires

Cruise control disconnected


I was initially thinking this car's fair price is probably worth low $30s but now with the transmission leak and unknown engine condition I'm concerned that I'll be into this thing for $45k+ in a blink of an eye


thoughs?


Last edited by baltik on Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

I think you are being very over generous.

If you are happy with that figure, buy it.

Without actually seeing in real time, anything posted here in answer to your question is nothing more but pure speculation .

There isn't a fixed figure on any vehicle.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

Ok..... Put aside your syncro lust for a minute.

Now, pretending that you didn't write the OP.....

Read it as if you've never seen it before......

What's your gut feeling?

I know what my gut feeling is..... No matter if it is a. 2wd or Syncro..... This unit has issues! Serious ...... expensive issues.

No rust? Great........ A good place to start on a rebuild.

I took three years putting my 2wd unit right. To have paid someone to do that? I cannot imagine!

Anything can be fixed, but you need to get it at the right entry cost.
A $30,000 entry cost?
Think about it......

Dave
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greebly
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

$10,347.22
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

One would assume that for 30 large the entire Van would look like new, & run as good.

In my opinon, just from the message you dropped, it's a bit overpriced.
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photogdave
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

Sounds like a bit of work. Lack of rear locker devalues a Syncro some.
You're looking at a trans rebuild and probably motor rebuild or replacement. Bad seals could mean hidden rust.
Factoring in current high Syncro values of today I still wouldn't want to pay more than 12K.
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Syncro Jael
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

baltik wrote:
I'm concerned that I'll be into this thing for $45k+ in a blink of an eye, thoughts?


$yncro Lu$t will get you everytime. These are fun machines but they tap the wallet all the time. Even if you do the work yourself.

I think $30 is steep for what you are looking at.

Don't blink twice or you will go from $45k to $60k in the next blink! Rolling Eyes
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DwarfVader
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

I'm going to say this:

Walk away...


Here is my reason:
There are several syncros in just the classifieds here between 30-40k$ that "seem" to be in better condition than the one you're looking into... And to start at 30k, you're looking at another 10k+ easily to make this rig what you want it to be... You'll be looking at 50-60k before you know it. (And I only know all of this for a fact because of what I've read around here, WATCHING other people do exactly what I and others are telling you you'll do with this rig.) If you NEED/WANT a syncro, find a better option around here or elsewhere on the internets... If you don't NEED a syncro and could do with a 2WD, for 30K(or less) you can find more than a couple here in the classifieds that are almost flawless and have worked past the bugs of a conversion or rebuilt engine.

Why you SHOULD listen to me:
I read a LOT... and I spend almost as much time looking at every vanagon ad here at the Samba as I do reading the forums... Which is a LOT! I just did a quick search and found at least 2 full-camper syncros that are UNDER 30k that seem better than what you've posted. (though hard to really tell for sure until you know more about them obviously.)

Why you SHOULDN'T listen to me:

I don't own a westy of my own yet... I want one, have all the plans in the world to get me my own, but still don't own one... As such, I am just the peanut gallery around here, and my opinion is just that, and opinion. Those above and below this post own at the least 2WD rigs, so their input is slightly more valuable to you than my own.... Take mine with a few grains of salt.
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davevickery
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

If it is an original 89 syncro westy with a really nice exterior and clean interior it would be worth $15K even if it needs a fair amount of work. The more important question is whether the van is right for you. If you are not handy, it might quickly get out of control cost wise and you may never get it all sorted out. But if the price is right and you can tackle most things yourself, it could be a good way to get into a rare Syncro Westy.
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photogdave
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

Dave raises a good point. Along with the Tiico conversion robbing this van of originality points, is it a factory Westfalia or even factory Syncro?
Check the VIN!
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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

$30k seems high for what you described.

I wouldn't knock the Tiico for originality points, considering how many Subaru conversions you see. The stuff you cite that is easily fixed by the home wrench turner makes me wonder what other surprises you'll find. Walk away or offer a price you can live with, knowing there will be surprises. Half that $30k seems like a good starting point. Yeah, Syncro lust is a thing but in the light of the morning after, will you be happy with it?
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BenjaminCA
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

Run like a chill autum breeze. Some much possibility for further expenses. Maybe 30k if the engine and trans had a fresh rebuild?
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hans j
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

There was a pretty nice syncro westy for sale in Idaho earlier today for 27k obo. Can't find the add anymore. It was up only for a few hours it looks like Shocked
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Sodo
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

Is this in North America? What part?

Reading your description before seeing the 30k, I had 15-20k in mind. No rust is cool, if you are going to restore it, that's gotta be worth a few thou$. Never wrecked? If thats the case,,,, that's another plu$. 170k is not a lot, that's worth some thou$, hard to know if it's genuine miles. '89 year worth a thou$ Or 2. Crummy engine is useful for docking $$ off, then you can put what you want. Trans leaking could be a crap rebuild. Peloquin diff is more useful than a locker, but the knob & light is good for style points.

When you see it theres all the little things, door handles worn out, switches worn out heater controls, upholstery, camper condition, tent etc etc etc. if all the little things are in nice condition thats real good!
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docj78
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

Run. Run fast. I bought myself a bargain syncro Westy. It's not as much of a bargain anymore, and the receipts from the FLAPS are literally adding up daily. I just had to push start today (uphill by myself to get out of a parking spot at the trailhead!!) because it decided that turning over just isn't cool anymore.... This van you describe sounds worse than mine, other than the lack of rust. If you really want one, I'd say skip the Syncro. You're gonna get a much better 2wd van. Syncros seem to either be restored collectors rigs worth more than a mountain cabin, or badly neglected rigs that need a masochist with deep pockets to bring them back from the dead.
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baltik
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

Well - seems like there's some strong consenus within the group, and clearly I have my own trepidations hence my post...

The hard part is that I've been syncro hunting for over a year and a half now, have flown out to see a few, paid for 4 ppi's, I've dug deep into the market and it's been impossible to find a late model syncro, mileage on the low side with no rust and decent mechanicals in the $30k range. They are either $55k+ show cars now or trashed and rusted at ~$25k. For those that commented that there's better deals in the classifieds right now - that may be but I'd venture that I've spoken with the sellers already and they all have their own issues.

The attractive part of this Syncro was the fact that the miles are all verified, there's service records far back (sans engine conversion) and there's zero body rust under original paint, so there's worse cars to sink money into. The main downside for me is the lack of rear locker - that way even if I do drop a lot of cash in it it still doesn't have everything I want.

oh well camping season is upon us, syncrofest is around the corner and it looks like I'm back to the drawing board.


Car in question:
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledet...&Log=0


Last edited by baltik on Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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goffoz
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
One would assume that for 30 large the entire Van would look like new, & run as good.

I think this is a very good response
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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

What do you think it's worth, having heard the cognoscenti?

And what do you think you can get it for?

It may be a money pit but maybe not as deep as you've heard and depending on where you start. At $30k, that's a deep hole but at $20k or less? Not nearly as bad. Not a lot of instant gratification to be had but that starts at $50k or so.

I haven't been in this as long as the rest of the group (I only bought my 2WD Westy in May of '15, with nothing but my gut instinct to guide me and man, have I paid for that) but if there ever was a time when the sub $20k Synco Westy that didn't have a date with the crusher was a thing, it's long past that time.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

List 39k? Not likely.

If that van was listed at $15k there would be nothing to talk about (SOLD)
List 20k? Prob sold in a week. $25k would take a few weeks, because it is a collector vehicle, in Hailey. Might be worth a few thou just to get your project going (an no rust - original paint). Offer low 20s.

It would be interesting to know what it finally sells for.
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axeman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Fair price for a $yncro I'm considering buying? Reply with quote

For 30k you could have mine.
Ej 22 using only rjes parts and a spaire rebuilt long block
Gear box rebuilt by aidan talbot lessthan 10k ago
Refurbed vc
Front and rear locker
All underbody protection galvanised
Weco compressor fridge
Propex night heater.
14x6 wheels
And lots more

Neil
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