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Ignition Switch Alternative
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jall2n52
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject: Ignition Switch Alternative Reply with quote

Being sick of replacing Ignition Switches has anyone replaced with a toggle switch and a start button?
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yardbug
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure someone has done it in the past. Sounds like you might have a different issue. Ignition switches don't go out with every oil change.
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jall2n52
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:06 am    Post subject: yard bug Reply with quote

suggestions?
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Vanagon Syncro with all brand new wiring.

I used Painless wiring harnesses and the start function is wired to a momentary push button switch.

Just as I wire up race cars.

Working perfectly Exclamation
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yardbug
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might check the plug behind the switch. What year vanagon
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BillM
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you using a good quality replacement? There are cheap ones out
there that don't last.
Do you have any wiring changes like your radio hooked to
the key in buzzer circuit?
While they do wear out and fail it shouldn't need to be replaced
that often. Do you have a pound of keys hanging from you
key chain?
I also wonder if the portion your key goes in is somehow messed
up causing the electrical part to fail prematurely.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple years ago I fixed the ignition on one where the problem seemed to be the ignition switch but turned out to be that wear was preventing the little pin that turns the switch from moving the correct amount.
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Jedi
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the same issue in the past on one of my syncro's. I replaced 3 ignition switches till I noticed that the little switch was over worn and needed to be replaced. Embarassed Good thing is the part is cheap enough you can carry a spare in your parts box Cool
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:43 pm    Post subject: what pin? Reply with quote

Andrew A. Libby wrote:
A couple years ago I fixed the ignition on one where the problem seemed to be the ignition switch but turned out to be that wear was preventing the little pin that turns the switch from moving the correct amount.


what pin are you talking about? got a pic
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Syncroincity
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have lots of keys & doodads on your keyring? Heavy keyrings will destroy them pretty quick, especially the cheap new ones.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a pic. If you pull an ignition switch and look at what actuates it you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

FWIW, I believe that the 'too many keys' idea is a myth at least WRT VW ignition lock cylinders. The excessive keys may cause extra wear to the lock cylinder but considering the way it engages the ignition switch I do not believe that extra weight can transfer to damaging the switch itself. Kinda like the way folks think that the clutch master and slave failures are related, which they aren't.
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pushkick
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: ignition switch issues Reply with quote

i guess the best way is to unplug the connector and plug in replacement switch and try to turn with screw driver and see how it works. if it works fine i guess its the pin that is causing the problem. will try this and see what i find out. thanks for the help.
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ragnarhairybreeks
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's a pic (made by David B.) of the electrical parts of the switch. Just to add to the general conversation.

alistair

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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r39o
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pounds of keys thing is no myth.

That same lock was used on jillions of VWs.

So many girls came so many times with ignition issues and, almost, with out fail they had tonnage hanging on their key rings.

There may even be a TSB about it.

While you may not have caused it the PO may have.

Excessive play in the pin caused by the plastic bushing being worn will screw up the contacts in the switch.
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:06 pm    Post subject: Re: ignition switch issues Reply with quote

pushkick wrote:
i guess the best way is to unplug the connector and plug in replacement switch and try to turn with screw driver and see how it works. if it works fine i guess its the pin that is causing the problem. will try this and see what i find out. thanks for the help.


how about if you unplug the connector and then short some wires together in the connector itself - which ones do you connect?
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thatvwbusguy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is the procedure to crank the starter via the ignition switch socket. I copied this from a post a while back and can't remember who originally wrote it at this point. Anyway, here goes.......

Ignition Switch Bypass - Jumper Wire Starting Method:

Remove the plastic cover from the steering column and pull the black socket off the bottom of the ignition switch.

Insert a jumper wire between the large red wire and the solid black wire (a bent paper clip works well, but will get hot, so be careful). You should hear the fuel pump run at this point.

If you hear the fuel pump, leave the first jumper (large red to black) in place and insert another jumper wire between the large red wire and the red/white wire. This is your starter wire.

The engine should turn over at this point. If the engine starts, remove the big red to red/white jumper wire immediately. If you don't remove this jumper, the starter will continue to run just like holding the key in the start position.

This is essentially how to hotwire a Vanagon, but since the ignition steering lock is still in place, you can easily defeat any would be Vanagon heist by leaving the wheels turned into the curb when you park...
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geo_tonz
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and bookmarked! Thanks Jay, I was looking for that proceedure a while back!

To the op: you might consider a hard start and headlight relay kit like Jay makes to greatly reduce the amps that regularly flow throught that piddly plastic switch. Plus gain brighter lights, better cranking power and potentially preserve your headlight switch. Maybe it'd help with your ignition switch consumtion as well in reducing the load to that part.
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

r39o wrote:
The pounds of keys thing is no myth.

That same lock was used on jillions of VWs.

So many girls came so many times with ignition issues and, almost, with out fail they had tonnage hanging on their key rings.

There may even be a TSB about it.

While you may not have caused it the PO may have.

Excessive play in the pin caused by the plastic bushing being worn will screw up the contacts in the switch.


Yep...same story over in MB-land
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it with the design of the older Merz ignition lock assemblies. I don't believe it with the design of the VW ones. The wear on the VW lock cylinder itself would have to be beyond the point that would keep the key from turning prior to actually causing the electrical part to fail.

Last edited by ?Waldo? on Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Jahbah
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great timing.

At Syncro de mayo we had a very long group discussion about van fires. The guys doing the talking cover this switch as a fire hazard. There are two big wires running up and down your steering column, one feeds the switch the other goes to the starter. Apparently when you hear stories of vans randomly catching fire, starting themselves and driving into houses THIS is the source. The switch shorts out and starts a fire and also melts these wires together. I bought a momentary starter switch with plans to install it. I want to use the key as a "switch" to turn the van on and energize the start button. The goal is to prevent the van from having this possible short problem. Any how to pointers from people that have already done this?

Jay "thatvwbusguy" makes some really user friendly kits. I have the headlight relay and the hard start relay. Super helpful.
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