| Author |
Message |
patban82
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2010
Posts: 211
Location: LOS ANGELES, CA
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:31 pm Post subject: best electronic ignition system? |
 |
|
im looking to replace the points on my bosch 009. i seen some accufire, comp fire and pertronix ignition system. but i dont know anything about them. anyone with experiance with these please post comments.
thanks |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 35925
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Can't help you. Never used one, never needed it. Points rock.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79585
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Pertronix seem the most popular but that's because they advertise more.
I've seen all brands fail... and then you walk home.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Russ Wolfe
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2004
Posts: 25187
Location: Central Iowa
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
Pertronix seem the most popular but that's because they advertise more.
I've seen all brands fail... and then you walk home. |
I have never had to walk home using a set of points.
_________________
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you end up with a lot of scum on the top!--Edward Abbey
Gary: OK. Ima poop. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gtixpress
Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2006
Posts: 320
Location: Mahomet, IL
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've used both Pertronix and Compufire. Both worked well and the only reason I got replaced the Pertronix is I managed to hook it up wrong and fried it. doh!
I really want to attempt an EDIS install, but the trigger wheel mounting is what stumps me.
_________________
Joe P.
1969 VW Type 3 Squareback
2002 VW GTI 337 (Limited Edition)
2018 VW Atlas SE VR6 4Motion
2019 VW Beetle S Final Edition Convertible |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chim
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2010
Posts: 218
Location: Oregon
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not sure the brand really matters.. get some.. I have them.. Most people on this forum are purist and will talk trash.. points can fail just like these can.. so be smart in either situation.. carry a spare!
_________________
www.infowars.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79585
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There's been talk of the rotor disc not fitting tight and causing the timing to bounce around.
Let's not debate points vs electronic... there's already a topic for they. Just answer the question.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
There's been talk of the rotor disc not fitting tight and causing the timing to bounce around.
Let's not debate points vs electronic... there's already a topic for they. Just answer the question. |
my personal preference, after trying three different units (compufire, pertronix, and EMPI's "hot spark") is the compufire. they all work the same and seemed to hold up just fine, but the compufire is by far the best design in my opinion, and their fitment was definitely better than pertronix's unit, though the pertronix LOOKED like a better unit. Don't let the supple wires and sleek plastic sleeve fool you -- the magnetic sleeve just doesn't fit right on the T3, and the unit with the swivel plate for vacuum advance raises the unit to high to consistently pick up the magnetic signal - at least in my experience. By contrast, compufire uses a round plastic disk with the magnets clearly visible and evenly spaced, and fits properly and evenly on the rotor shaft.
performance wise, the Pertronix was the most spotty but only due to its piss poor fitment. I have one in my 009 in my ghia and it runs awesome, never had any problems or performance issues, because its the regular kind that fits right.
as for the hot spark... its cheap, it works, but it's a piece of shit. just shoddy chinese craftsmanship and I probably got the ONE that actually works. I have serious doubts just about whether the unit will hold up to heat and vibration. it just feels chintzy and light in your hand, while the others are hefty and solid feeling.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
Pertronix points replacement in my 019 -- been there for three years in the frankensquare...
in fact, it was Glenn that installed it when he rebuilt the distributor...
additionally, the OP may want to reconsider the title of the thread, since all you are asking about is a points-replacement-unit, not a true electronic ignition...
_________________
póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| blankmange wrote: |
Pertronix points replacement in my 019 -- been there for three years in the frankensquare...
in fact, it was Glenn that installed it when he rebuilt the distributor...
additionally, the OP may want to reconsider the title of the thread, since all you are asking about is a points-replacement-unit, not a true electronic ignition... |
good point.
also, IIRC the unit that pertonix sells for the 009 is the same that you'd be running in the 019, since its purely mech. advance right? I think the fitment is better on those units than the 1 size fits all (and it doesnt) vac advance version they sell.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79585
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| JSMskater wrote: |
| also, IIRC the unit that pertonix sells for the 009 is the same that you'd be running in the 019, since its purely mech. advance right? |
Wrong.. the 019 uses the 1844 and the 009 uses the 1847A.
And for the past year or so i've had to enlarge the hole in the mounting plate lays flat on the contact plate. I reported it to Pertronix tech support and they confirmed that the hole is too small. That was last summer and there's still been no change... have since stopped offering to install them on my rebuilds.
I've also found a number of the Pertronix has the magnets not exactly 90 degrees apart which alters the timing from cylinder to cylinder.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JSMskater
Samba Grease Gorilla
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 5362
Location: Murrieta California
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
| JSMskater wrote: |
| also, IIRC the unit that pertonix sells for the 009 is the same that you'd be running in the 019, since its purely mech. advance right? |
Wrong.. the 019 uses the 1844 and the 009 uses the 1847A.
And for the past year or so i've had to enlarge the hole in the mounting plate lays flat on the contact plate. I reported it to Pertronix tech support and they confirmed that the hole is too small. That was last summer and there's still been no change... have since stopped offering to install them on my rebuilds.
I've also found a number of the Pertronix has the magnets not exactly 90 degrees apart which alters the timing from cylinder to cylinder.
|
this is what I was trying to convey earlier-- something in their manufacturing of that sleeve doesn't seem as tightly controlled as say in the compufire system, which uses a round flat plastic plate that rides under the rotor. The magnets on the compufire are clearly visible so a quick eyeball check will tell you if the thing wasn't made right. The Pertronix sleeve? only way to know is pass another magnet and find them embedded in the plastic.
_________________
71 Squareback-FI -- 73 Bay (subaru powered)
TOOB Member #3
I make D-jet FI connectors |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Last I checked, points were electronic also. 
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79585
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tram wrote: |
| Last I checked, points were electronic also. |
Only if you consider a light switch "electronic".
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| Last I checked, points were electronic also. |
Only if you consider a light switch "electronic". |
Well, of course! It's all about directing electricity to perform a task.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79585
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I consider switches, relays and transformers "electrical". Electronic implies some sort of transistor, resistor or thing like that.
Or definitions differ.
Let's just call them "points replacements" since that's all they are.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23155
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| JSMskater wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
There's been talk of the rotor disc not fitting tight and causing the timing to bounce around.
Let's not debate points vs electronic... there's already a topic for they. Just answer the question. |
my personal preference, after trying three different units (compufire, pertronix, and EMPI's "hot spark") is the compufire. they all work the same and seemed to hold up just fine, but the compufire is by far the best design in my opinion, and their fitment was definitely better than pertronix's unit, though the pertronix LOOKED like a better unit. Don't let the supple wires and sleek plastic sleeve fool you -- the magnetic sleeve just doesn't fit right on the T3, and the unit with the swivel plate for vacuum advance raises the unit to high to consistently pick up the magnetic signal - at least in my experience. By contrast, compufire uses a round plastic disk with the magnets clearly visible and evenly spaced, and fits properly and evenly on the rotor shaft.
performance wise, the Pertronix was the most spotty but only due to its piss poor fitment. I have one in my 009 in my ghia and it runs awesome, never had any problems or performance issues, because its the regular kind that fits right.
as for the hot spark... its cheap, it works, but it's a piece of shit. just shoddy chinese craftsmanship and I probably got the ONE that actually works. I have serious doubts just about whether the unit will hold up to heat and vibration. it just feels chintzy and light in your hand, while the others are hefty and solid feeling. |
I have used them both. The compufire doesn't look as nice as the Pertronix....but what makes them different is important. The wiring and insulation is poor on the compufire. That being said, its dirt simple to fix the poor fit of the grommit and insulation and add an insulating sleeve to stop abrasion on the wires.
As for module quality, they are about the same. They both work fine. I have found teh machien work to teh moduel bidy on the compufire to be slightly crappier...but just some light filing helps.
The fit and bottom flatness of the Pertronix bracket and the size of the locating lug for the breaker plate...were of better quality than compufire for the vacuum advance distibutors of my type 4's.
I have not found the 90* issue for the magnets...but with all of the other problems with the magnetic discs...I have no doubt of it.
Thr magnetic rotors of both brands suck as far as fit goes. This is on the minor side...due to variances in molding. Thats maybe 10-15% of the fault. About 85-90% of the fault is due to the wide range of distributor shaft sizing and machine work treatments. I have at least three differnt shaft top designes laying on my workbench just within the 905 205P D-jet distributors I have.
I have found all of the magnetic discs to be iffy in shaft fit and height above the pickup unit.
I use this method to fix this
(1) I take an old auxiliary air regulator from D jet (type 3 or 4) and pull out the barrel valve and slice a ring of metal off the end. Sand lightly. It makes a perfect bushing for the space on the bottom side of the disc...and spaces it slightly higher above the pick-up
(2) I then clean everything, lightly grease the shaft of the dizzy and the outside of the metal ring bushing.....and spoon in a small amount of high temo epoxy in the space on the underside of the magnetic disc. JB wled works well...but there are better high temp epoxies. Install the disc...make sure its straight....wipe up any excess...let it dry overnight. This is a permanet fix.
I have found both brands require sanding about .060" off the bottom of the rotor for correct fit in my type 4 D-jet distributors.
With a little care....both brands can be made perfect. Its kind of hard to make a universal part with all of the tiny difference in the dizzy.
I buy the Pertronix lately because even with all of the other minor fit issues...it has a nicer harness. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
blankmange
Type 3 Darksider
Joined: July 17, 2004
Posts: 11498
Location: Bloßer Stahl-preapocalyptic MidCoast
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
I consider switches, relays and transformers "electrical". Electronic implies some sort of transistor, resistor or thing like that.
Or definitions differ.
Let's just call them "points replacements" since that's all they are. |
didn't I say that?
_________________
póg mo thóin
Certified DHS Technician
Samba Member # 24517 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 79585
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| blankmange wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
I consider switches, relays and transformers "electrical". Electronic implies some sort of transistor, resistor or thing like that.
Or definitions differ.
Let's just call them "points replacements" since that's all they are. |
didn't I say that? |
Why yes you did, but some would disagree.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
| blankmange wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
I consider switches, relays and transformers "electrical". Electronic implies some sort of transistor, resistor or thing like that.
Or definitions differ.
Let's just call them "points replacements" since that's all they are. |
didn't I say that? |
Why yes you did, but some would disagree. |
Glenn- Why don't you just can that toy of yours, buy a real VW, and join the Type 3 crowd? You deserve better than a Beetle.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
