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brendo907
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2013
Posts: 339
Location: North Pole, Alaska
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 Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:58 am Post subject: 74 super not cranking |
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Hows everyone doing today? my 74 super has been a work in progress, i got it to fix up and have been doing that rather slow because i dont have a garage and when its -40 outside i dont work on cars, let alone leave the house much. But now its 30-40 above and ive been outside alot. I was tired of breaking bleeder screws so i put new brakes all the way around, i dont want to take it apart for awhile. disk brake kit in the future.
Got it all adjusted up, and i have pedal! went to start it and key turns normally, oil and alternator light come on, along with fasten seat belts and brake light. My seat belt safety things are un plugged from PO. But it doesnt even try to start. i dont hear any relays and the starter is for sure not getting any power, its not trying what so ever. It has done this before, but usually turn the key on and off it will fire up. Where should i start on this bugger? Thanks everyone for your help. |
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Harleyelf
Samba Member
Joined: April 23, 2009
Posts: 1573
Location: Appleton, WI
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| Bypass the ignition switch. |
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brendo907
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2013
Posts: 339
Location: North Pole, Alaska
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Harleyelf wrote: |
| Bypass the ignition switch. |
how do i go about doing that? my first bug so i dont know all the tricks. Im a diesel and quad guy |
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Luft kühl
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 1179
Location: Allentown, PA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:34 am Post subject: |
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Under the rear seat you will find a red/black wire that has a push on connector that changes the wire to a red one. Disconnect the junction between the two.
The red wire is connected to terminal #50 on the starter solenoid. Momentarily jumper this wire to the positive battery terminal. This should cause the starter to operate. If not, you have a problem with the starter or its battery connections.
The red/black wire should have close to battery voltage (+12v) when ever the key is turned to and held in the start position. If not, you may have a problem with either the ignition switch or the safety belt interlock circuit (found only on 1974 cars). |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2011
Posts: 1593
Location: Louisville, ky
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Under the back seat there is a wire going from the battery to the wires on the drivers side, I don't remember exactly where. And there is a wire going from the pile of wires on the drivers side going into a hole near the battery. Make sure the car is in neutral and jump a wire from the battery to the one leading from the drivers side down the hole. That should get the starter turning. If the car was on it might even start.
If the starter does not turn, try the same thing laying under the car and shorting out the wires at the starter.
If that does not turn, you are down to either battery too low or starter is dead. And jumper cables can take one of those out of the equation. |
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brendo907
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2013
Posts: 339
Location: North Pole, Alaska
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Luft kühl wrote: |
Under the rear seat you will find a red/black wire that has a push on connector that changes the wire to a red one. Disconnect the junction between the two.
The red wire is connected to terminal #50 on the starter solenoid. Momentarily jumper this wire to the positive battery terminal. This should cause the starter to operate. If not, you have a problem with the starter or its battery connections.
The red/black wire should have close to battery voltage (+12v) when ever the key is turned to and held in the start position. If not, you may have a problem with either the ignition switch or the safety belt interlock circuit (found only on 1974 cars). |
Which connector? I have the round one with a fuse inside and then the rectangle one that has bigger wires and smaller ones. Thanks for the help |
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Luft kühl
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 1179
Location: Allentown, PA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: |
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On the wiring diagram it is connector T1b. You are looking for the red wire that exits to the outside of the car behind the battery (connected to starter). The red/black wire is in the harness that comes from the front of the car.
The fuse holder is for the rear window defroster. |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8895
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting did not realize it was that easy to start a bug from under the back seat. I was just looking at your photos https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1120885.jpg and noticed you have the 1974 1 year only Motorola Alternator which uses an external voltage regulator. I just rebuilt one of these alternators for my 1971 Bus and it worked out nicely I used a external regulator and some individual brushes I bought on the internet. Most people just throw away these old Motorola Alternators but they are easy to change the bearings in and I just installed the single brushes because I could not find the brush holders. The diode wiring inside the alternator is a bit hairy though but the main thing with the wiring inside is to get good connections at the ground screw in the back end and at the B+ post. If you wind up taking one apart. I made sure both brush connections at the connector DF D- were floating but D- Just gets grounded anyway in the regulator.
74-Up SuperBeetleSchematic. and Schematic Key. Looks like one of the regulators from Autozone would also work if you need one. 74 Beetle Alternator and Regulator installed on 1971 VW Bus. Motorola Alternator, Starter Solenoid Don't forget to unsolder the coil wires before taking one of these apart.
Your battery should charge at 14 volts dc and proper charging will help with starting too. Your starter likely needs to have the solenoid cleaned and greased to be dependable.
_________________
1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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brendo907
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2013
Posts: 339
Location: North Pole, Alaska
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the info on the alternator, rebuildible is always good to hear. I went out there and it started, started a dozen times or so without not cranking. Im thinking it's my solinoid. I heard they can be cleaned and greased up? |
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[email protected]
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2011
Posts: 1593
Location: Louisville, ky
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I have cleaned and lightly regreased a solenoid. I've had a cleaned solenoid last a decade.  |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8895
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Just tracing out the starter circuit to see where other problem spots may be and it appears on the Schematic and Key there are several places that voltage can be lost on it's path to the starter solenoid. Use good sharp meter probes and a dc volt meter to measure across each point at the moment someone cranks the car over for a second or two long enough to get a reading. Any switches with over 1/2 a volt are problematic any connections with over .25 volts need repaired.
1. Positive Battery cable at the battery,
2. The other end of the small red wire on the positive Battery cable where it goes into Ta under the back seat.
3. Red White wire where it connects to the 12 volt fuse box bus and the fuse box bus.
4. Red Wire 30 where it connects to the 12 volt fuse box bus.
5. Ignition Switch between Red 30 wire and white red 50 wire.
6. J34 between the white red wire 50 and the red black wire 50.
7. T9
8. T1b
9. Red wire 50 at starter solenoid. spade lug connector or whatever it uses.
10. Starter solenoid contactor inside starter solenoid.
11, Return ground path through Starter to bell housing, transaxle, transaxle ground strap, chassis, battery Neg. cable.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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brendo907
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2013
Posts: 339
Location: North Pole, Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| I think it has to do with the seat belt system on it. I noticed when I go to start it and it cranks the seat belt light is off, when it doesn't want to start the light is on |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32988
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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brendo907
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2013
Posts: 339
Location: North Pole, Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:43 am Post subject: |
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ill have to look at my fuse box, from what i can tell the plugs under the seats are disconnected. What else does one do to eliminate this system, the PO did this for me. Perhaps one of the relays is sticky or something. Im looking over the link right now |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32988
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Luft kühl
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009
Posts: 1179
Location: Allentown, PA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Make a jumper out of a small piece of wire and two male spade connectors, and bypass the safety belt interlock relay.
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brendo907
Samba Member
Joined: September 13, 2013
Posts: 339
Location: North Pole, Alaska
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Thank you for those diagrams, ill be doing that later, it seems the PO somehow eliminated the system while keeping the relay in the car? I was going to adjust my carb and it started fine, it died ( hence the carb adjustment). but i went to restart it and that damn buzzer is going off and the light is on. I fiddle with the key and sometimes it starts (light and buzzer off) and sometimes it will try to start, almost like a really dead battery (the light flickers). Ill be pulling that relay and jumping it over. Then lets hope i can get the carb adjusted in right and go for a drive without it dying at the stop sign! |
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