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geo_tonz
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2012
Posts: 1473
Location: Courtenay, BC, CANADA
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 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:39 am Post subject: Beta test of Jay Brown's Vanagon Alternator Harness Upgrade |
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Some of you probably notice I do recommend Jay Brown’s stuff (“thatvwbuguy” here) from time to time as I’ve really enjoyed dealing with him and I’ve found his products and service is top notch. I’ve also read many Samba “heavy hitters” recommend his stuff and that goes a long way for me too. That said I hope this doesn’t come across as an advertisement as I have no vested interest in Jay’s business and am gaining nothing but international fame with this thread. Jay gave me the opportunity to try out the 6AWG version of his “Vanagon Alternator Harness Upgrade” early on and I jumped at it, and thought I’d share my non-expert run-of-the-mill Vanagon-nut experience for anyone wondering about it…
I’ve had the 6AWG “Vanagon Alternator Harness Upgrade” installed for a week or two now. The 8AWG would have been plenty for my application of a single battery and minimal load (Carat interior) but bigger is better right? Here’s the one I’m talking about:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1648432
https://sites.google.com/site/vanagonheadlightrelays/alternator-harness
A comparison with the original harness I removed…
Jay’s:
Heavier gauge all around, nicely crimped connectors covered with adhesive-lined shrink-tubing, sealing it from the elements. Stiff main wire as it is tinned marine-grade. Nice sleeving which is apparently very heat resistant. Slightly longer than stock that lets you flex the heavier gauge wire around a little easier.
Stock:
By comparison the stocker feels much lighter and flimsier, with very plastic-feeling insulation and sleeving. Though there is shrink tubing on some connections it is more of an insulator/short-protection without sealant and is not weatherproof. The exception is the starter connector which has a built-in rubber boot. I’m not sure how sealed that connector is but it looks like it is likely watertight.
Overview shot: Stock (upper) vs Jay’s (lower):
Alternator connections. Dramatically illustrates the difference in gauge between Jay’s (left) and the stock (right) harnesses. The weatherproof sealing adhesive can be seen squeezing out of the shrink tubing on the red wires of Jay’s harness while the stock one is unsealed.
Junction box connections again showing the significantly larger wire gauge and the quality weather-proof shrink tubing on Jay’s (upper) vs stock (lower).
Starter connections again showing the difference in wire gauge. Compare Jay’s (lower) to the skinny red wire exiting the stock connector just before entering the black sleeve (upper). The stock connector is quite different from Jay’s and that threw me for a loop for a sec until I realized what I was looking at on the starter. I was initially thinking that the stock connector might provide better current flow being larger, but then I realized the front and back of the connector are the only solid part of the connection when it’s tightened and in that regard the surface area is pretty much the same between the 2. Furthermore, any minor advantage the stock connector might have would be immediately lost going into the tiny stock wire. The shrink tubing at the junction on Jay’s is a nice touch to seal up this end of the sleeve from water and dirt getting into it, though I don’t doubt the marine-grade wires would be largely unaffected by it for many years.
Install:
Install was pretty easy. There are 3 unique ends with 1 to 2 wires apiece. Figure out which end goes where, unhook old one and oem clips, attach new one and reattach clips/use zip ties, coat connections in dielectric grease. Jay had given me some instruction but was in the process of completing his write-up at the time so current purchases of the harness will have detailed, photo-rich instructions available to aid install. If you can change a car battery you can put in this.
Results:
This is an alternator harness…I wasn’t expecting significant horsepower gains or a better ride or deeper bass from my 4” stocker speakers. What I wanted out of this was a heavy supply line that would eliminate any possibility of an electrical bottle-neck and wasn’t suffering from invisible corrosion somewhere in the line. I’d seen the benefits of upgrading stock wiring with a hard-start relay and especially headlight relays (literal night and day difference), both of which I previously purchased from Jay. Therefore the idea of greater and potentially more consistent alternator power getting to the battery and fuel injection systems was an easy sell for me. Just handling Jay’s harness you know that that is achieved with this part. It is heavy duty and well-built stem to stern.
I did not start out with any serious issues that could be attributed to a faulty harness, so I wasn’t sure what to expect. The first thing I noticed is my alternator light: it used to stay on for a few moments after starting, sometimes until you put it in gear and stepped on the gas, but now it snuffs out immediately after startup. I would attribute that to the heavier gauge blue wire that now carries more current and trips the alternator to charging much more quickly. Evidence of increased current flow with the first turn of the key! I would also say now that my idle is slightly smoother. Not amazingly so, but again my van idled fairly well going into this. I fully admit it may be a placebo effect (like how my van runs better when I change the oil), but a search through the Samba finds threads about bumpy idling attributed to a corroded harness so I’ll stick with my observation. In my instance I wouldn’t say this cured a rough idle or anything, but at least I know a faulty harness won’t be the cause of that in the future.
Comments on other harnesses:
I have not seen other supplier’s versions of this harness in person, but from website pictures and descriptions I would surmise the following that Jay’s has over one supplier:
-Jay’s equivalent 6AWG version is less expensive
-Appears better made and using better materials (at least as far as comparing description to description and picture to picture)
- “budget minded” option (8AWG) that is great for regular tin top folk who aren’t putting in solar and battery banks but could also easily handle a basic dual battery set-up
-Instructions provided instead of saying “Kit does not include installation instructions…read your Bentley”
-Shipping to me in Canada has always been much quicker and cheaper from Jay than the other supplier
Service:
All in all I’m very happy with the alternator harness, and it’s always a pleasure to deal with Jay. He’s always been very helpful and friendly in my correspondence and very willing to do custom set-ups or modify his stuff to suit. Also as a final note even though it’s “just a wire” it came carefully packaged.
Check out Jay’s feedback if you aren’t sure about him… http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search...rds=100988
***EDIT: I ADDED SOME PHOTOS OF JAY'S 8AWG HARNESS THAT I RECEIVED TO REPLACE MY CORRODED STOCK ONE ON MY '85***
Since the initial post above I have recieved an 8AWG harness from Jay to replace the nearly-busted one on my '85 (photos of it's sad state in a post below). Though lighter gauge, the quality of materials and workmanship is just as good as the 6AWG I detailed above and it is more than sufficient for a single-battery or even a basic dual battery set-up. It is still vastly superior to the stock harness.
From Jay's Site:
| Quote: |
| For Vanagon's using the stock battery system, or an additional auxiliary battery system up to 125Ah, the 8AWG harness is a great choice. |
Here's some photos comparing Jay's 8AWG harness to the same stock '89 harness I used in the photos above. Sorry, these ones are iPhone pictures in my dark garage so not quite as nice.
Over view photo comparing the two harnesses. The obvious difference between the 6AWG I have and the 8AWG is the sheathing material is different, but otherwise same great construction and larger gauge than stock.
Alternator connections with stock on left (has ring connector for the blue wire on the the '89), Jay's on right (has blade connector for the blue wire for my '85). I didn't tell Jay if I had a ring or blade connection for the blue wire on my '85s alternator, but he got it right...must have looked at my photo in the post below of my corroded alternator connections and did it up that way! How's that for service?! The wires are obviously bigger gauge than the stock one, and on my '85, the stock blue wire seems even dinkier!!
Starter connections with stock on left and Jay's on right. Connectors are again different but with no issues using Jay's. Obviously a larger gauge too. Adhesive sealant can be seen squishing out of the shrink tubing on jay's, sealing everything up tight.
Junction box connections. Well made and lager gauge.
Junction box connections. Well made and lager gauge.
8AWG Summary:
For a regular tin top single battery I would have been happy with the 8AWG from Jay, even if I planned on a basic aux battery setup. There's no doubt it is a vast improvement over even a pristine stock harness and it would easily handle the loads. This would be a great option for the budget oriented who don't have any plans for significant added accessories or bigger battery banks. All things being equal though personally I'd just pay the extra $6 and go for the big boy and never worry about it again.
_________________
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 "Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper
Last edited by geo_tonz on Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:26 am; edited 7 times in total |
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insyncro
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:49 am Post subject: |
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I agree.
Top notch products, well constructed with quality materials...plus Jay has great customer service, answers all questions I have for him with details or links and in a timely manner. |
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Snort
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Joined: April 02, 2005
Posts: 1977
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Have you done anything at the alternator connection to protect it, such as a rubber boot? If not, perhaps this would be something to pass on to the seller to see if they were willing to incorporate it into the design. |
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61Scout
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Joined: November 06, 2011
Posts: 1297
Location: Shoreline/Yakima WA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:59 am Post subject: |
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I've ordered a couple headlight and starter kits from Jay now and indeed he's a pleasure to deal with. Quick shipping, answers questions (and knows his stuff), very good value for your money for his products, and I've seen him stand behind his product right here on TS. What more could you want? Has anyone had a negative experience with him? I've yet to hear of anything bad.
This thread may be nixed due it's nature, but I think good vendors need to be known and poor ones weeded out. Jay is solid in my book and I'd have no problems buying any product that he brings to market. Thank you Jay, for offering the kits you do.
Kevin
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1986 Westfalia Weekender Wolfsburg, RJE 2.3
1985 Tin Top, Subie 2.2 + 5MT
Floppy Mirrors no more: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=653018&highlight=
Remove the front spindle nut with ease: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679567&highlight=
Remove the rear wheel bearing housing without messing with the big 46mm nut: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=679507&highlight=
-Nec Spe, Nec Metu |
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geo_tonz
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Joined: August 01, 2012
Posts: 1473
Location: Courtenay, BC, CANADA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Snort wrote: |
| Have you done anything at the alternator connection to protect it, such as a rubber boot? If not, perhaps this would be something to pass on to the seller to see if they were willing to incorporate it into the design. |
I can pass it along, though I'm sure He'll probably read the thread with his name on it  I just coated it in dielectric myself. it is pretty protected behind the intake, at least as protected as the innards of the alternator, but I could see a small boot potentially providing some protection.
| 61Scout wrote: |
| This thread may be nixed due it's nature, |
I hope not; I intended this to be a review of the product and and experience dealing with the seller but I probably got carried away. Sorry if I did.
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"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper |
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Timwhy
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Location: Maine
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geo_tonz
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2012
Posts: 1473
Location: Courtenay, BC, CANADA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Timwhy wrote: |
Jay also included me in his beta test and I could not be more pleased with my results too! Smoother idle
and no more bouncing/surging idle on the road. |
Did you notice if your alternator light went out faster after the install as mine did? Just curious as if yours remained unchanged then I guess that means my original one was worse off then it appeared.
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"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper |
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10504
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I installed mine yesterday, the 8awg version. I did voltage measurement tests first, at the dash, with various loads switched on. Then again with the new harness.
With the old stock harness and the new harness the voltage at the alternator was 13.95 volts.
The initial voltage at the dash was 13.7, new harness 13.8
As I added various loads the dash voltage fell with each addition, but fell less with the new harness than before. The improvement under load was .2 - .4 volts higher with the new harness, improving more with higher load. There was nothing really wrong with the old harness and I was happy to see that the new harness helped anyway. When I add an aux battery to that van I know the harness will be up to the job.
Mark |
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thatvwbusguy
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Joined: April 18, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: Newmarket, New Hampshire
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Guys,
Thanks for the writeup and the kind words. I will look into some options for a protective rubber boot for the alternator end and possibly the starter end as well.
I am also looking into the possibility of a brass bushing to replace the large stock connector at the starter solenoid bolt. It looks like this might add quite a bit to the cost though, so it might be offered as an optional add-on.
It may be possible to carefully clip the spacer off the stock harness and cover it with some electrical tape or shrink wrap to allow the use of the stock rubber boot.
Having a group of beta installers I can rely on to give me honest feedback and suggestions has been a huge help when developing new stuff.
_________________
Jay Brown
'85 Zetec Westfalia
Newmarket, NH
If you want others to be happy, practice compassion.
If you want to be happy, practice compassion. |
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dobryan 
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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Chuey
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Location: Oceanside, California
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Veddy Interestink. This thread, I read just after reading the thread about a fire extinguishing loop. In that thread, there was a San Diego Vanagon owner and another one from somewhere else who both related stories of fires or almost fires from alternator wires failing.
Also, Mark...crazyvanman is a guy who knows his vanagons. He told me that this vendor's products are good stuff. I bought the headlight and starter relays from him already. And, as said by a few others, my questions were answered right away.
You don't have to beat me over the head to see that this may be a good preventative measure. I'll get one ordered up and install it very soon!
Chuey |
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IdahoDoug
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Joined: June 12, 2010
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Location: N. Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Nice writeup - thanks for the informative post. I don't think I'd be alone in saying that a lot of the problem issues we see in operating Vanagons are electrical in nature, and strengthening the foundation of the electricals with stout primary wiring is a smart way to keep these old girls running reliably.
DougM
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1993 Toyota LandCruiser, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader |
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geo_tonz
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Joined: August 01, 2012
Posts: 1473
Location: Courtenay, BC, CANADA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Chuey wrote: |
| Veddy Interestink. This thread, I read just after reading the thread about a fire extinguishing loop. In that thread, there was a San Diego Vanagon owner and another one from somewhere else who both related stories of fires or almost fires from alternator wires |
I hadn't even thought of this contingency. Funny, I was just reading about Blazecut on a facebook vanagon group. Well that makes me doubly glad I've upgraded this part!
| IdahoDoug wrote: |
Nice writeup - thanks for the informative post. I don't think I'd be alone in saying that a lot of the problem issues we see in operating Vanagons are electrical in nature, and strengthening the foundation of the electricals with stout primary wiring is a smart way to keep these old girls running reliably.
DougM |
My thoughts exactly. I'm slowly trying to eliminate the obvious electrical gremlin possibilities and it makes sense to know you have solid primary power and work from there.
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"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper |
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moremorevan
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Location: Portland
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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I put this in this weekend in about an hour. The instructions provided where clear and straight forward. I got the 6awg to try and beef up the aux battery charge. Quality harness, thanks!
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HoustonPhotog
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unibagel
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yay Jay!! As usual, you nailed it!
Last edited by unibagel on Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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scottychop
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Ordered. A no brainer really. |
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geo_tonz
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Location: Courtenay, BC, CANADA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:04 am Post subject: |
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I was poking around in one of my '85s and thought I better check the alternator harness wiring. Wholly crap is it bad. A nice graphic illustration of why a new harness is a good idea!
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"Ron Burgundy": 1991 Vanagon Multivan (Weekender) 2.1L Auto - Driver/Camper |
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Bruce Wayne
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| mine looks even worse than the above pic,85 as well here too. just placed my order for the 6AWG. |
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insyncro
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Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: |
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The above is a great illustration of how wires degrade over time.
Jay's harness and wares are great.
Let's not forget the rest of the harnesses and sub harnesses in the van.
They all will show some sort of degradation and will need replacing in coming years.
I have experience with a brand new Waterboxer engine bay harness made by another vendor and let me share with you that the engine knows it has new wires and connectors in place.
The idle is rock solid, the peripherals all test perfectly and my mpgs are up.
New wires are an excellent investmest  |
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