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Dangerous parts for sale on the Samba?
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Lionhart94010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:28 am    Post subject: Dangerous parts for sale on the Samba? Reply with quote

Bay Window bus parcel trays Price: 200.00

Bay Window Bus Parcel Trays. Fits any bus '68 to '79, deluxe or standard. Custom hand made here in the USA. Original look and sturdy for real world use. Powder coated heavy duty steel construction. Available in black. Comes with mounting brackets and hardware. Shipping is $25 in the continental US.

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1698238


When I see parts like the one’s above for sale, I wonder if the seller has any clue they’re putting T2 Drivers in needles danger, in the event of a serious front end collision?

The OEM VW T2 parcel trays had a foam/plastic coated frame with an easily collapsible fine mesh bottom that in an accident would likely not shred the occupants legs like the ones for sale above…

I sort of feel that I should e-mail the seller and let them know about the problem with their product, but then sometimes think, I am overly concerned about safety? I see people replacing there door and kick panels with wood and think to myself in an accident how the wooden panels could easily turn into jagged edged surfaces resembling a bunch of wooden spears that can skewer the occupants…

In addition, it seems odd that apart from upgraded self-tensioning seats belts that are available for sale for T2’s Bays without them there are few other available safety items offered for our T2 Buses…

From looking at front end accidents of pre 73 Bays; to me it would seem that adding something similar to a Roo Bar may help prevent the front end sheet metal from caving in as far as I have seen, due to the spot welds shearing off at the bottom due to impact… I understand that in an impact that sever there probably would be serious injuries, however the extra protection may reduce the total trauma especially to the legs?

Anybody have a four-point harness seat belt in their T2 and had a accident in one while wearing it? Any thought on if that would be a Beneficial upgrade Think
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babysnakes
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see how those can be dangerous. I have seen trays made out of what looks to be ABS plastic which would be safer. There was a vendor here a while back that made those trays out of copper pipe and license plates. I was in a bad front end wreck where my knees made serious contact with the dash. No broken bones, but it was difficult to walk for more than a week. 25 years later I'm having knee and hip problems, though I am not sure if from the accident or my line of work. As far as a four point harness, where would you mount the inner points without a roll bar?
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Mal evolent
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had 4 point seat belts in a buggy. liked them so much I put them in my MGB. they lasted a weekend

way too much effort when you stop here, drive a block, stop there. they interfere with things like turning the radio down. fine for strap in, hang on and try not to scream environments, notso hotso for daily convenience.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are several concerns regarding safety, I hadn't thought about the parcel trays. Good point!

One of the key things I like about my 1973 bus is the added safety features, but it still has enough early bay features to keep me happy.
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Lionhart94010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mal evolent & babysnakes,

Good points, I too was wondering if it would be too constrictive to be useful, I Goggled retractable four point harness, and it seems that there are some three point retractable harness that work similarly as a four point(over both shoulders) that may be adaptable to T2’s?

2-Inch Retractable Harness Belts
http://www.corbeau.com/products/harness_belts/2-inch_retractable_harness_belts/

Google Retractable four point harness
https://www.google.com/#q=retractable+four+point+harness&tbm=shop&spd=5192995458438403985
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VDubTech
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you were worried about your safety you wouldn't be driving a Bus.
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borninabus wrote:
a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful.

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my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars.

EverettB wrote:
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery
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ChrisFred
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VDubTech wrote:
If you were worried about your safety you wouldn't be driving a Bus.


Granted, buses are not the safest vehicles, they had taken safety precautions over the years. First off, a 1600 cannot reach what you would call "top speed", and after 1973, the Y frame on the front was introduced due to the precautions of Ralph Nader...

I am not stating they are a 5 star safety vehicle of today, but anything is better than some of the cars on the road today. (Smart car, Lotus Elise, etc.)
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I messaged him the dangers on this part. Too risky to put in any bus, but if somebody was crazy enough, I had told him to put a disclaimer stating that this is a potentially dangerous part in the bus.

I also let him know some websites sell reproduction OEM pieces for $80, and they are safer Laughing
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VDubTech
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisFred wrote:
I am not stating they are a 5 star safety vehicle of today, but anything is better than some of the cars on the road today. (Smart car, Lotus Elise, etc.)

That might be one of the stupidest things I've ever read.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279077&highlight=
borninabus wrote:
a measurement of your rod would be extremely useful.

notchboy wrote:
my dad wasnt a belittling cock when he tought me how to wrench on cars.

EverettB wrote:
One photo = good for reference.
10 photos = douchebaggery
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Brian
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Lionhart94010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we can all agree that our old T2’s are not the safest vehicles on the road, but from the accident pictures I have seen and collected, they can take a substantial hit, and if the vehicle that is being hit has a modern crumple zone(verses a tree for example) that can help reduce severity of the impact…

As I plan to drive my T2 for at least twenty more years (powers that be willing)I want the occupants to survive any potential the impact as best as possible…

Seeing car crash dummies crashing using standard three point belts, leads me to believe a double over the shoulder belt could offer some valuable protections; and from looking at the crash pictures I have saved, a good Roo Bar seems as it too could be valuable in a front ender… (PS I was thinking of building a Roo Bar with an integrated tow bar and perhaps a tow winch and space for my generator, extra spare etc… for when I take it on its around the world adventure ;0)
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Lionhart94010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisFred wrote:
I messaged him the dangers on this part. Too risky to put in any bus, but if somebody was crazy enough, I had told him to put a disclaimer stating that this is a potentially dangerous part in the bus.

I also let him know some websites sell reproduction OEM pieces for $80, and they are safer


I will be interested in his response…

RE:
Quote:
reproduction OEM pieces for $80
do you have a link?
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Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 72 KG GT;0) 12 JSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VDubTech wrote:
ChrisFred wrote:
I am not stating they are a 5 star safety vehicle of today, but anything is better than some of the cars on the road today. (Smart car, Lotus Elise, etc.)

That might be one of the stupidest things I've ever read.


I fully agree. Yes... I like busses. And if you are worried about safety...as noted....there is not one safety related reason why you should be driving a bus.

As, for the five star safety comment....dude....understand this:
Back in the day when safety first started becoming a publicized and legislative issue.....the company that made their name on "automotive safety"....Volvo....pretty much reached their "we are alone at the top" zenith ...between 1979 and 1983.
Those were tough, safe, heavy cars......and not a one of them will even rate a 1 star on the current five star crash rating.
Yes...its moved that far. In a report I read about five years ago in one of the car rags.....even the worst cars that rate even a 2 or 1 on the five star crash safety scale.....are several orders of magnitude more safe at higher speeds and virtually and sort of crash.....that even the highest rated cars like the volvo 240 of the 70s and 80s.

They were speaking primarily to questions raised about econo cars and rickity suvs like Kia and others from Asia. The real difference between something rated at the top of the five stars and something rated at the bottom....these days is actually very narrow in the real world.
What makes the scale distorted is that the world class cars....BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc......if there were more than 5 stars on the scale....WOULD rate many stars higher than than the average 1-5 star cars.

Other experts in the field in other articles have noted that crash survivability has moved so far forward in this day and age that if the "star" scale were expanded to say.....15 stars....something like a top end Mercedes money sled would rate up around 14-15...most average cars of this current and recent era would still rate in the 1-5 range...and virtually everything before about 1990....would rate somewhere in the -5 to 1.0 range.

Its not just an airbag thing. Crumple zones had just started coming into being in the mid to late 60's (the VW 411 and 412 have front and rear crumple zones)....shearable motor mounts were later...and engineered crush buffer zones were in their infancy in the 70's.

There should bd virtually no worries about "safety" with ragard to the VW bus. Thats not why you are driving it. Dont try to talk yourself into a sense of safety when you are thinking about buying or driving a bus. It does not exist.

Also....the idea that you just dont go that fast....is ludicrous. The manufacturers pretty much have ignored and gotten around the 5mph crash safety rating issue (Canada and others suspended it a long time ago)...because its worthless for keeping crash repair costs down.
If you can do critical $$$-wise damage to even later vehciles built for much greater survivability than a bus.....think what happens when your 4000+ lbs of steel hits a stationary object that is unmoveable...like a pole or a building.....or the combined enertia and kinetic energy of an overlapping collision. ...at a measly 35-45 mph (which your bus will easily do) with another 4000 lb plus vehicle like an SUV.......at a combined speed of say 70-90 mph if you were both doing 35-45 mph.
Your junk will collapse like a used condom.

Busses are cool and fun to drive....but safety or near safety....or comparative safety should never even enter the conversation.
Want to be safer in your bus?
Drive well....keep immaculate brakes, get some real wipers, dunp the period seat belts and get some real ones, buy real tires and dump the bags and lowering crap so the bus handles as well as it can with maximum tire adhesion, properly rebuild and align your suspension....not this piecemeal crap of cheaply replacing only what "looks" worn or waiting until parts break before replacing them......and above all....put down the bong.

If you arnt willing to do these basic things...there is really no point in having a safety discussion where the VW bus...mor virtually any ACVW are concerned.
Sorry for the rant but I just had to inject a little reality here. Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^I agree with about all of that.

what you forgot to mention is todays speeds are higher. so 65 really means 75/80 here in Connecticut.

the other thing, is there is more bullshit to play with when you drive. navigation, RSE, phone, Bluetooth etc.... all which takes your concentration off the task at hand...DRIVING

I work for Volvo. all of the bullshit they are cramming into cars, from the BLIS, to the crash avoidance stuff (over 1K for a windshield on one of those cars if anyone cares) is out of control.

there is no need to feel like you are driving your f*cking livingroom down the road. and all this crap in my opinion give joe customer the false sense of security that his family is "safe"
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ And I agree with all of that^ and all of that^ Very Happy

I can't wait till Nigel sees this thread Shocked
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lionhart94010 wrote:
ChrisFred wrote:
I messaged him the dangers on this part. Too risky to put in any bus, but if somebody was crazy enough, I had told him to put a disclaimer stating that this is a potentially dangerous part in the bus.

I also let him know some websites sell reproduction OEM pieces for $80, and they are safer


I will be interested in his response…

RE:
Quote:
reproduction OEM pieces for $80
do you have a link?


http://www.eisparts.com/ZVW-21411.html?gclid=CPK6gbDKk8ECFRJk7AodBBsApA

May not be pretty, but I can tell it does not work on deluxes (without modification to the tray).
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to agree with the comment about not driving a bus if you have any concerns with safety. People are killed daily in vehicles that are rated high in crash tests. Certain accidents will cause death no matter what you're driving.

I think we need to put driving any air cooled VW in perspective in regards to safety. How many MILLIONS of American driver motor cycles daily. They have ZERO chance in just about any accident yet they still get out and enjoy their rides.

I agree with Ray in making sure you bus or bug is in top condition. Drive VERY defensively like your riding a motorcycle and smile and enjoy your VW and life.
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Lionhart94010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too “agree with Ray in making sure you bus or bug is in top condition. Drive VERY defensively like your riding a motorcycle and smile and enjoy your VW and life.”

However making them even less safe with dangerous add–on’s for sale to uninformed samba members on Thesamba is my main concern, adding beneficial upgrades is just a subtopic ;0)


ChrisFred, RE:

Quote:
http://www.eisparts.com/ZVW-21411.html?gclid=CPK6gbDKk8ECFRJk7AodBBsApA

May not be pretty, but I can tell it does not work on deluxes (without modification to the tray).


It was only after buying a similar plastic tray as the one above that I realized even the plastic one could cause unnecessary harm in an accident over the stock ones, IMO I have worthless tray that I can’t in good conscious resell :0(

Another less than safe parcel tray for sale on Thesamba


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1603818

Hand crafted trays. Their great as,a foot res and to place your,food on. You can also fit a small pet on them and it has cup holders. they are steel constructed and hand welded. Feel free to texft me if interested 6263105136 local pick up only
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Current VWs 71 T2 Westy SO-72/6(Miami), 71 Crew Cab, 72 KG GT;0) 12 JSW TDI
Other owned VW’s 59, 68 1500s, 69 & 71 Bug’s; 72 & 73 S-Bug’s; 67 Westy, 67 Deluxe, Other 71 DC
VW technical information sights
thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ talk about unsafe for crying outloud, theres a dog on that!!! What if the dog fell off and hit the gas pedal?
What if a space ship landed infront of the bus? What if the bus had wings? What if you had a really big load in the back, hit the brakes and came and hit you in the back of the head? Better empty your bus, unload the fridge, unload the stove,



I have a list of what if's....
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