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kenshapiro2002
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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 Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:15 pm Post subject: Gotta Gap Between My Pillar and My Rocker...Ideas? |
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I have a full 1/8" gap between my new KF long rocker and my pillar in this one area of this one pillar. My thinking is to NOT leave it like that...susceptible to getting "boinked" from the outside. I could hammer the edge of the pillar outward to close the gap...shim it with more metal...shoot in some 3M panel adhesive...JB Weld™... Whatta ya'll think?
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Looking for a correct 1967 rear seat
Looking for '67 Engine / Block HO 183xxx - HO 194xxx |
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brettsvw
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 2178
Location: Florida
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19915
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like the outer and inner panel don't have the same curvature.
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olliehank47
Samba Member
Joined: May 04, 2011
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| crofty wrote: |
| Looks like the outer and inner panel don't have the same curvature. |
Agree^^
Before you do anything, look carefully at the contour of the rocker, from the outside. Does the entire panel "flow" smoothly from belt line past the weld seam of the patch and to the pinch along the underside? In other words, is the patch panel properly contoured for the entire long side panel? If so, you need to adjust the pillar contour. From your pic, it appears the pillar flange, immediately below your tack welds, is a little bent to the inside. Don't know if that's an illusion or actual. If you need to adjust the bend in that flange, you should, IMO, cut the tack welds, remove the entire pillar piece, and bend accordingly or you risk a major dent in the outside panel if you miss with a hammer blow. It may be easier, however, to shim the space between the panel and the pillar where the welds will be, and fill any gaps with seam sealer. It will look ugly but it will be covered yet will be solid.
BTW, is the gap the same on the other side of the pillar piece? |
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Schwing
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2009
Posts: 2514
Location: Centreville, MD
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kenshapiro2002
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| olliehank47 wrote: |
BTW, is the gap the same on the other side of the pillar piece? |
Yes...the gap is the same on both sides. The pillar to the rear of that one is tight at the top and gapped at the bottom. Seems this rookie just didn't fit well enough!
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Looking for a correct 1967 rear seat
Looking for '67 Engine / Block HO 183xxx - HO 194xxx |
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Schwing
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2009
Posts: 2514
Location: Centreville, MD
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kenshapiro2002
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| Schwing wrote: |
Thinking about this some more...
Are you thinking you installed the pillars too far into the inner rocker?
I need to get over to your place and take a look, maybe one day next week? By then you may already have this fixed though.  |
Yeah...the forensics of what caused it would be useless. Nothing is coming back out at this point. It's all a matter of how best to address the gap. Rob Skinner, who does buses for a living, says to fill the gap with 3M binding adhesive. In fact, he does the pillars entirely with the stuff all the time.
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Looking for a correct 1967 rear seat
Looking for '67 Engine / Block HO 183xxx - HO 194xxx |
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brettsvw
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 2178
Location: Florida
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kenshapiro2002
Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2013
Posts: 1826
Location: Bawlmer Hon
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| brettsvw wrote: |
Looks like the pillars were welded before fitment of the rocker panel.
I have made the same mistake on the my first long-wall rocker.
I made myself a template for welding the pillars to get the correct contour. |
I fitted, just wasn't observant enough. Won't make that mistake next time ( there won't be a next time!). So it is a matter of addressing the situation, not doing it over.
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Looking for a correct 1967 rear seat
Looking for '67 Engine / Block HO 183xxx - HO 194xxx |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17962
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:40 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with either 3M or SEM panel bond. 1/8 isn't a lot of space.
I think you would do more harm than good trying to fix it to a point where it could be welded.
trying to make the panels fit flush at this point may give that area a weird flex/oil canning effect. buses flex a lot more than you would think.
panel bond is some pretty dam good stuff when properly applied
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Schwing
Samba Member
Joined: May 10, 2009
Posts: 2514
Location: Centreville, MD
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| kenshapiro2002 wrote: |
| Schwing wrote: |
Thinking about this some more...
Are you thinking you installed the pillars too far into the inner rocker?
I need to get over to your place and take a look, maybe one day next week? By then you may already have this fixed though. |
Yeah...the forensics of what caused it would be useless. Nothing is coming back out at this point. It's all a matter of how best to address the gap. Rob Skinner, who does buses for a living, says to fill the gap with 3M binding adhesive. In fact, he does the pillars entirely with the stuff all the time. |
The Schmootz sounds like a solid plan. Nice and easy in a caulk gun and you are in business. I definitely wasn't suggesting you re-position your pillars, I was just thinking through it.
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 6394
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: |
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I am currently working on the pillars and long wall/ rocker of my 65. AS everything was pretty much rusted away or apart when I started I have a maze of straight metal and string lines to help me find "where" everything is supposed to go back to. 1/8" is not much, and if you fill the gap with panel bond adhesive the repair will be strong and last a long time. The only place it "might" show, would be on the inside, but I doubt anyone will notice an 1/8" wave on the long panel behind the middle seat 
My long wall pillars and top hat channels are a bit tweaked. I have welded some 1x1 square tube on the inside from side to side to make sure they hold straight, and then stretch a string on the outside so I can adjust the flange to where the new skin is going to want to sit. It's a lot of work and a pain in the ass, but you have to do it if you want everything to look mint and correct. While the Klassic Fab panels are great, nothing is perfect. The first a pillar I did with their parts, I just installed it where it's own curve looked like it fit best. And man it looked great, till I had to adjust some door gaps and do the cargo rocker, and then I had to cut it part way back out to tweak it. My point is that you have to check everything, or else the bit that doesn't fit right will show up in the end, as a gap, a high spot, or a puddle of filler 
I have bought a large assortment of Cleko fasteners, I never see them used on Samba, but they are the best for dry fitting panels. Way better than sheet metal screws, as they can be had in 3/32 and smaller size. When I fit the new skin (door to rear corner) to the pillars and top hats, I imagine I'll use 50 or so to hold it tight and check it for straightness.
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thom
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000
Posts: 6306
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:50 am Post subject: |
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I use clecos all the time, but other Samba gurus look down upon them for some reason.
I ran into the same curvature problem with the KF panels. In my case, the curves didn't match up even when trying to test fit the pieces on the workbench. What I did was made a slice, fix the curvature as best as I could, then weld it back up. I had to force the KF piece to match to the OEM dogleg, which made the gap even worse.
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brettsvw
Samba Member
Joined: November 22, 2007
Posts: 2178
Location: Florida
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1967250s
Samba Member
Joined: May 02, 2007
Posts: 2137
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Looks to me as if the problem starts with the old upper pillar that is bent or pulled inwards, maybe by the new weld shrinking. I'd suggest cutting the weld, push the upper pillar out to the skin and reshape the upper, then weld new pillar back in adjusting the weld joint as needed.
PS what does the outer skin look like?
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