larger cylinder heads

[videoguy009]

I have a stock 1600 DP motor and I was planning on adding internally something that would give me more torque and Hp on the grounds of a 1776.I was planning on 90.5 pistons with stock cam and stock crank(I want torque more than anything).I looked at Steve Tims Super Stock 37.5x32 heads which will work in a stock application.Two questions/If I changed the stock heads alone to Tims,How much performance will I gain?And if I add the 90.5 pistons to these heads what will be the gain.Remember STOCK and no upsizing like dual carbs etc.
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1971 Super Beetle

[Danwvw]

Well, I don't know but, Hum, you can make it into a 1776cc by having the case opened or you could make it into an 1800cc by going with a counterweighted 74mm crank and some 5.325" short rods and 88mm slip in machine in thick-wall p&C's . So your going stock on the carb, Really! What are you doing about the cam? By the way I would love to try a pair of those Steve Tim's heads! Oh and one other thing. Short rods=More Torque down low in the rpm and stroke=More Torque. Oh, and not to mention Dual IDF's "Carbs" = 's More torque down low even with Camming it up from stock to about a 250' @ 50 thou on the cam! But yeah if I had a case I felt opening up a little I would run the 90.5's or the 92's with the 74mm crank, More More! And less work on my part! Why? (Because:) Pistons skirts must be modified, ie ground to clear the crank, when running a 74mm crank and the short rods unless you can go to 90.5 or larger on the bore.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[videoguy009]

Stock carb and stock cam.Talked to the Tims and very knowledgeable people.they said if i went with the heads alone I would notice the difference.Better flow and bigger intake 37.5 but will not effect the 34 pict 3.I am looking for a little gain but not alot.I have had 1776 with 40x35 ,110 cam dual 40's and a Gene berg 2007 74 mm stroker engine with 42mm DCNF in different vws.I experienced these and they are good if that is what you want but I have no use for that anymore.One point/If you notice the really nice vw's in the magazines the cars in Europe,one thing you will notice/BONE Stock!I guess it is the KISS theory they are applying.I bet they don't have a section like this in their forums.LOL It is only we in North America who like to experiment in the vast and ever expanding vw world.All I am saying is me along like many others have travelled that route but I would like to change course a bit.
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1971 Super Beetle

[Danwvw]

OK yes what you want is what you will get for sure but all I am saying is given the choice of opening up a case for 92's vs the 88mm slip in machine in and short rods and 74 crank that is counterweighted and by the way the same cost as a 69mm Well which has more yeah, run the Steve heads and the Stock cam with the 1800cc, it will have more torque than a 1776cc!
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[bugguy1967]

Of course a head guy is gonna sell you on heads...

If you only want an improvement in lower RPM power, just use a larger piston set without any other mods. I've driven "stock" 1641s, 1679s, 1776s, and 1915s. They were all better than stock. With the stock cam, the stock 34-3 will work just fine after a re-jet. Larger valved heads are not going to improve your bottom end by a great amount. Maybe stock ones with chamber work, cleaned-up ports, and an excellent valve job would make some gains. That and a bump in compression.

[richparker]

If you're sticking with a stock cam and the stock carb (which I totally get) you should stick with stock valve size. Better heads, yes. Bigger valves, no. Nice stock looking exhaust, yes. I'm with Danwvw, stick with the 90.5 and get a 74 or 76 stroke crank. It will still "look" stock, have all the torque you are looking for and you'll still get good gas milage.
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’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build

[ekacpuc]

[UK Luke 72]

How did those Mofoco heads work out cupcake? I have just bought a pair of the super street 040s from Roy, can't wait to get my hands on them

As above though OP, don't do anything wild on a stock carb...

[ekacpuc]

[mark tucker]

personaly I wouldent use a stock valvedhead.I dont 1641's with 40x35.5&stock carb and the owner was tickled. so ..thoer are somay out there pick ypur budget.I used the scat prostreets, they are pocket ported very well for around $220 each.but they are now china. personaly I would go with the new cb lostpancheetos. they are made right and no need to rework the ports to get them sort of right withen the constraights of a stock port shape.

[65calvw]

One point/If you notice the really nice vw's in the magazines the cars in Europe,one thing you will notice/BONE Stock!I guess it is the KISS theory they are applying.I bet they don't have a section like this in their forums.LOL It is only we in North America who like to experiment in the vast and ever expanding vw world.All I am saying is me along like many others have travelled that route but I would like to change course a bit.



I believe a major reason for the retention of stock engines is due to regulations in certain European countries. Pretty harsh.

[65calvw]

One point/If you notice the really nice vw's in the magazines the cars in Europe,one thing you will notice/BONE Stock!I guess it is the KISS theory they are applying.I bet they don't have a section like this in their forums.LOL It is only we in North America who like to experiment in the vast and ever expanding vw world.All I am saying is me along like many others have travelled that route but I would like to change course a bit.



I believe a major reason for the retention of stock engines is due to regulations in certain European countries. Pretty harsh.

[FreeBug]

[videoguy009]

Just by replacing the heads from stock to Tims would I gain anything in overall running?
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1971 Super Beetle

[vwracerdave]

[videoguy009]

Keeping the engine stock looking is one reason for sure.I simply do not like dual carbs as I had them on two vws I owned.Would the CB center section manifold with the better heat risers and better atomization help with the flow.Or is flow/flow?
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1971 Super Beetle

[Alstrup]

Hello.
Stock engine, but 1776 displacement. Its hardly worth it. You will get better torque from idle to 3300 rpm. (Compared to a 1600) From thereon up it will slowly limit itself and yield maybe 60 hp at about 3800 rpm. And then it will be all over. The addition of larger valved heads will not do much difference except in specific rpm areas. The larger the valves the better upper end and weaker lower end basicly. An otherwise stock 1600/1641 with larger valved heads like 40/35 will rev higher than stock, and the peak power moves upwards by 250-300 rpm, but the actual power (APB) remains almost the same. Only marginally higher You just move it around.

On the other hand, a built 1776 with slightly improved cam, dialed in CR, better flowing heads (37,5/32 is more than enough) improved 34 mm Pict-3 carb and a better flowing stock look muffler will pull 80 hp easy at about 4300 and can have peak torque in the 150 Nm range from about 2400 - 3500 rpm.

If you are really in the hunt for bottom end torque I suggest you go to 1914 displacement at once. In a good (and still relatively simple) set up we can pull something like 85 hp & 160+ Nm torque.

This is a low frills 1914 built especially for torque to pull a semi off road 181 thing

the red line was when we played with a K&N filter on top of a 40 mm stack. So it is really the green torque line you should focus on.
T
I can´t enlarge it, sorry. But it pulls 160+ Nm from 2000 to 3300 rpm. and peaks hp at 4000 rpm.

[videoguy009]

Would you advise the engle 90.A little more than the stock cam.I think w100 is too much.What would you advise on the stock look muffler.
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1971 Super Beetle

[Alstrup]

Frankly. I do not know the W90 cam. But John @ ACN says it works well in such engines. I am more to the CB cams for these types of engines. For higher torque "low" rpm I use the 2280, for more upper end or more displacement I use the 2239 and then for special applications or engines on the edge I use some grinds that I get made myself. In your case I would choose the 2280.
The stock muffler has to go, or get gutted. There are several stockish mufflers on the market that flows much better. In the cheaper end there is the Sebring style muffler, then the VS. In the high end there is the BAS Customsport which I refer to every once in a while. The BAS is THE BEST stock style muffler on the market today up to about 115-120 hp. Especially since I stopped making mine Quieter, very nice fit and makes the engine pull very nice torque and run cool. Expensive,,, hmmm yeah, but you get what you pay for.

T

[videoguy009]

Here is my FINAL build components and I think it will give me adequate torque and HP without choking it down too much.

Stock re jetted 34 Pict 3 with CB 3151 center manifold section
69 mm Crank and flywheel 4 pin (no need for 8 pin on this size motor)
Engle w90 Cam with engle lifters
90.5 Pistons
Steve Tims Super Stock 37.5 x 32 heads
Stock Exhaust
26mm Shadek oil pump and case full flowed
Solid rocker shafts with 1.1 to 1 rockers
Compression 8.1
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1971 Super Beetle