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Air-Cooled Head
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Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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 Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:30 am Post subject: So... I dug out my 68 square. |
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So, to copy another post, I dug out my 68 Square.
I'm the 3rd owner of this mostly OG VW Squareback. It's a 68 Euro model (for American delivery) that was brought back by a GI back in 68. He eventually sold it to one of his troops, who hauled it around behind an RV.
I was very lucky to find it on TheSamba, and purchased it in the fall of 2003.
It sat mostly unattended for the remainder of 2003 and into 2004. I finally got it refreshed (and looking better) and drove it the the 2nd T3 Invasion, in Hershey, PA. in 2004. A little over 1500 miles, round trip, w/o a problem. This is what it looked like, then.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1335662.jpg
Late in 2006, it came upon engine problems. Things didn't go well, and the car sat from around the end of 2006, until the spring of 2009. During that time, I decided on a new look: "Rat-Look".
I lowered it to the limit of practicality; Any lower, and I couldn't drive it. This is what it looked like, then.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1335663.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1335664.jpg
Life happened, and by the fall of 2010, I was mostly out of the VW hobby, and the car just sat in the garage. In Summer 2012 I had to move, and was able to drive the car 3 miles to it’s new “storage” spot; beside a garage, under a car cover. It sat there till the fall of 2014 when I moved it to another “storage” spot; beside the garage, under a car cover.
Since (in the famous last words of the P.O., "It ran when I parked it.") this weekend I got it started and drove it out of storage and into the garage. This is what it looks like now.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1335669.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1335668.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1335667.jpg
This is about the worst rust on the car.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1335670.jpg
But there are rust measles all over.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1335678.jpg
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1335679.jpg
Future plans call a new/different engine.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1335684.jpg (this one has it’s own long story), and some other darkside stuff. 
Purists may not want to read any further. 
It feels good to be back! 
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: Re: So... I dug out my 68 square. |
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| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
So, to copy another post, I dug out my 68 Square.
I'm the 3rd owner of this mostly OG VW Squareback. It's a 68 Euro model (for American delivery) that was brought back by a GI back in 68. He eventually sold it to one of his troops, who hauled it around behind an RV.
I was very lucky to find it on TheSamba, and purchased it in the fall of 2003.
It sat mostly unattended for the remainder of 2003 and into 2004. I finally got it refreshed (and looking better) and drove it the the 2nd T3 Invasion, in Hershey, PA. in 2004. A little over 1500 miles, round trip, w/o a problem. This is what it looked like, then.
Late in 2006, it came upon engine problems. Things didn't go well, and the car sat from around the end of 2006, until the spring of 2009. During that time, I decided on a new look: "Rat-Look".
I lowered it to the limit of practicality; Any lower, and I couldn't drive it. This is what it looked like, then.
Life happened, and by the fall of 2010, I was mostly out of the VW hobby, and the car just sat in the garage. In Summer 2012 I had to move, and was able to drive the car 3 miles to it’s new “storage” spot; beside a garage, under a car cover. It sat there till the fall of 2014 when I moved it to another “storage” spot; beside the garage, under a car cover.
Since (in the famous last words of the P.O., "It ran when I parked it.") this weekend I got it started and drove it out of storage and into the garage. This is what it looks like now.
This is about the worst rust on the car.
But there are rust measles all over.
Future plans call a new/different engine.
(this one has it’s own long story), and some other darkside stuff.
Purists may not want to read any further.
It feels good to be back! |
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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vwfye
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Joined: April 15, 2000
Posts: 7751
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:31 am Post subject: |
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This is the car that made it to Hershey?
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64 No'back Speedster "Pearl"
LME "Little Giant Killer 3"
1974 Ghia "PUK" |
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ataraxia
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4509
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:47 am Post subject: |
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When you bought those parts from my 64 Variant some *cough* five years ago: Were those for this car or another one?
Five years ago, really? It's been that long... |
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Air-Cooled Head
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Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| vwfye wrote: |
| This is the car that made it to Hershey? |
Yep. We've both had a sometimes difficult life since then.
| ataraxia wrote: |
When you bought those parts from my 64 Variant some *cough* five years ago: Were those for this car or another one?
Five years ago, really? It's been that long... |
Really? Only 5 years? That feels like a life-time ago. 
Truthfully, I don't recall. I just remember it was cold and raining.
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4509
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
When you bought those parts from my 64 Variant some *cough* five years ago: Were those for this car or another one?
Five years ago, really? It's been that long... |
Really? Only 5 years? That feels like a life-time ago.
Truthfully, I don't recall. I just remember it was cold and raining. |
Might be 6 years, actually. It's almost mind boggling at how much has changed in the last 5-6 years though. |
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Donnie strickland
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Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Do you feel the cover caused the rust? I once briefly covered my 66 Beetle, but I quickly realized it was never drying out, so I stopped doing that before it began to rust.
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Air-Cooled Head
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Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
| Do you feel the cover caused the rust? I once briefly covered my 66 Beetle, but I quickly realized it was never drying out, so I stopped doing that before it began to rust. |
I don’t know if it caused the rust, but I’d guess it contributed. Over the last 4-6 years, the car sat outside, under that cover for at least 4. It certainly kept the elements out, but over time, it probably helped hold some condensation.
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Erik G
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Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13552
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
| Do you feel the cover caused the rust? I once briefly covered my 66 Beetle, but I quickly realized it was never drying out, so I stopped doing that before it began to rust. |
this is generally the observation. I once left a bug covered in the rain - and the sun came out and got nice and hot before I got home from school. all of the cheap chrome stuff was covered in surface rust and it was only a couple hours
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Air-Cooled Head
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Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, when I uncovered the car last weekend, it was "sweaty" all over. The windows were fogged up, on the outside! I'm sure its what happened to the eye brows and made the rust measles everywhere. (see front fender pic)
Now, what to do about the measles,,,,, 
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vwfye
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Joined: April 15, 2000
Posts: 7751
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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try the softest compound you can on a small area and see if it will level out at all?
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64 No'back Speedster "Pearl"
LME "Little Giant Killer 3"
1974 Ghia "PUK" |
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Soul
Samba Member
Joined: May 05, 2004
Posts: 168
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Good to see you're back. Me on the other hand.  |
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Bobnotch
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Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23421
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| vwfye wrote: |
| try the softest compound you can on a small area and see if it will level out at all? |
Yup, then put some wax on it to seal it.  You'll want something like 3M's "Perfect it", in the black jug. It's not agressive like 3M's regular rubbing compound, but still has some rubbing compound qualities (it's a finer grit).
My best guess is that there were tiny stone chips (from being drug behind the RV) already there, and the car cover just brought out the rust due to it holding the moisture. You actually got lucky, in that the car cover didn't wear the paint off the car in places. 
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Air-Cooled Head
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Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Looking for something to de-rust my fuel tank, I found “Krud Kutter” at the local Farm & Fleet. I’d never heard of it, so for $7, I gave it a shot.
Started with this,
(The lemon juice never worked on my rust. )
I followed package directions,
And got here in about 3 hours.
Not bad. It contains muriatic acid, which I could have used straight from the bottle, but this is a lot milder.
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23195
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:58 am Post subject: |
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No...No....No... Understand this please. PLEASE......LISTEN/READ CLOSELY
If you see "rust measles" or rust flecks on a PAINTED SURFACE.....you are seeing rust from the metal underneath...PERIOD.
There is no iron in the paint you have. At one point in time there may have been SOME iron oxide in certain red and orange paints but that was LONG LONG ago.
This is why polish, gloss and later...clear coats were invented. If paint is left to oxidize with age on the surface......and as it continues to cure or dry over the eons....it develops micro-cracks as the binder shrinks. You cannot see these.....but they are there.
Ever seen cracked or peeling paint on an old ship or steel bridge?...how do you think that starts?
What you have is fissures all the way to the surface. It is now rusting at the surface in these micro cracks...under your paint.
Cleaning them up just makes it look better They WILL WILL WILL WILL WILL keep rusting. This is what creates the Swiss cheese pattern of rust holes. in ancient cars.
And...using a muriatic acid product on these is a no-no. Yes...it dissolves the rust.....and even in the fissures. The problem is that acids have lower surface tension and can reach through micro fissures.
Water by itself and especially water with a buffering agent like sodium bicarbonate have higher surface tension and cannot reach/flow through the micro fissures to neutralize or rinse away that muriatic acid....so the acid will accelerate the problem.
Chrome...not a real problem with a product like that. Paint....its a huge problem.
And yes.....putting a tarp over the car ...especially with old seals and oxidized paint with no surface sealing...can be a death warrant for a car. It causes precisely the problems mentioned here because .....and this is key....it keeps water against the paint and chrome.....in its vapor phase....and raises the temperature.....which easily puts the water vapor into microscopic cracks where liquid water cannot easily go....get it?
It does less damage in cold weather and most of the damage in hot humid spring and summer weather.
Did you know...that this is precisely why they make high dollar "breathable" one-way membrane car covers?....and they still do not help 100% when the paint is open on the surface.
Do yourself a favor and strip it as soon as possible and at last prime and seal it. And...this is largely the same answer I gave to this same post and question you posted in the body and paint forum.
And no....its not worth saving the paint just because its OG. Save the metal...forget the paint. Its just paint. Its easily replaced compared to metal.
Yes....I deal with paints, industrial coatings and inks for a living. The issues with wrapping non-sealed paints...and the rust and corrosion it causes are well known. Ray
EDIT...by the way....if I sound harsh...dont take it personally  .....i know you are not one of the "patina" crowd  ...you are just trying to keep it together. The only people I respect in the patina crowd are those making "new" patina....who understand that you can't buff rust and seal it and expect it to not keep rusting. The "created" patinas....are chemistry and paint magic. I still wouldn't do it to my car....but respect what it took. |
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Air-Cooled Head
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Joined: October 15, 2002
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Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:03 am Post subject: |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
Cleaning them up just makes it look better They WILL WILL WILL WILL WILL keep rusting.
Chrome...not a real problem with a product like that.
EDIT...by the way....if I sound harsh...dont take it personally .....i know you are not one of the "patina" crowd ...you are just trying to keep it together. The only people I respect in the patina crowd are those making "new" patina....who understand that you can't buff rust and seal it and expect it to not keep rusting. The "created" patinas....are chemistry and paint magic. I still wouldn't do it to my car....but respect what it took. |
No problems Ray. I always appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
I was just experimenting, and the intent was to see if it made the eyebrows look better. I'll might use it on the corners of my bumpers. Might not, since they have less rust than the after picture, above. That's all. Never even considered using it on a painted surface.
Since the car has been off the road since about 2010, I just want to drive/enjoy it some this Summer. It will be garaged, and since there are no wipers and the window scrapers are dry, it won't even see rain, if I can help it.
It will be stripped/painted (and some other stuff) starting in the Fall.
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raygreenwood
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Air-Cooled Head wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
Cleaning them up just makes it look better They WILL WILL WILL WILL WILL keep rusting.
Chrome...not a real problem with a product like that.
EDIT...by the way....if I sound harsh...dont take it personally .....i know you are not one of the "patina" crowd ...you are just trying to keep it together. The only people I respect in the patina crowd are those making "new" patina....who understand that you can't buff rust and seal it and expect it to not keep rusting. The "created" patinas....are chemistry and paint magic. I still wouldn't do it to my car....but respect what it took. |
No problems Ray. I always appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
I was just experimenting, and the intent was to see if it made the eyebrows look better. I'll might use it on the corners of my bumpers. Might not, since they have less rust than the after picture, above. That's all. Never even considered using it on a painted surface.
Since the car has been off the road since about 2010, I just want to drive/enjoy it some this Summer. It will be garaged, and since there are no wipers and the window scrapers are dry, it won't even see rain, if I can help it.
It will be stripped/painted (and some other stuff) starting in the Fall. |
The crud cutter...and diluted muriatic acid will help the chrome by removing the rust....but you have to neutralize it fairly fast and then rinse well. Most good chrome is triple chrome plated. Once through the surface rust of the chrome that has flaked away you reach copper. Left too long the acid will start eating the copper.
After neutralizing and rinsing...dry it and wax it....and remember that its a temporary way of getting the chrome to look better. Once the film plating has been pierced it will always be a weal spot for water.
I saw someone a while back who derusted chrome and cleaned the specks and pits very well......then sprayed a decent layer of one of the "near-chrome" looking paint products over the chrome as a sealer for the pits. before it was fully dry...he wiped most of the paint off of the chrome leaving it only in the pits. Then polished with a buffer and chrome polish or rouge.....and....iit looked pretty dang respectable and the pits are sealed for some time to come. Ray |
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Mike Fisher
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Posts: 18046
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 11:34 am Post subject: |
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I have been using lemon juice on my bumpers to dissolve rust gently!
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
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69 Notchback
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Location: Bailey Co
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice square! Love the year. |
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Erik G
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Posts: 13552
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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WD40 and synthetic steel wool works great for rust
I did the bike in the bed of my DC. So then I did the bed of the DC - It worked great. It did wonders on the paint, none of that was re-painted, it was hiding under the rust
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