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kaleb555
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Joined: October 01, 2024
Posts: 27
Location: Arkansas
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 Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:51 pm Post subject: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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Hey all! Could really use some guidance here...
My 73 has been having issues, and she keeps fouling out spark plugs. I've tried countless times to get to the bottom of the issue but I'm only left with the same result: BLACK SPARK PLUGS!!
I rebuilt the carb with what I just recently realized was a cheap POS kit from China. I went ahead and got a genuine Weber kit and rebuilt it, thinking this was the issue. Well, it didn't fix anything.
Here's the Specifics:
Carb: Weber 32/36 DFAV
Float Levels: 36mm & 47mm (per the rebuilt kit instructions)
Jetting:
Main Jets:
- Primary: 140
- Secondary: 145
Imulsion Tubes:
- Primary: F50
- Secondary: F66
Air Correctors:
- Primary: 170
- Secondary: 165
Idle Jets:
- Primary: 60
- Secondary: 55
Please provide any guidance you can! Spring is here and im ready to cruise!![/b] |
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42460
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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does it have a choke, and if so is it fully opening?
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kaleb555
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2024
Posts: 27
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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| SGKent wrote: |
| does it have a choke, and if so is it fully opening? |
It has an electric choke, and as far as I'm aware, it does open fully. Haven't been able to get the motor all the way to operating temp yet without it fouling the plugs. |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52319
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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How old is the gasoline in your tank? You might get a portable can and stick a hose down into it, running the other end to the fuel pump inlet and see how that works for you. Ethanol laced fuel doesn't age well and will start to give problems with its been sitting in a steel tank in as little as a month.
Consider blocking the choke butterflies open for now. A short piece of 1/2" diameter dowel rod will work. Start the engine and let it warm for a minute or so and then stick the dowel rod down past the butterfly in a way that will hold it open. A 1/2" rod should not be able to make it down passed the booster venturis.
It's likely that what you are seeing is carburetor icing. If that is so the engine will die a few minutes after a cold start and if you let it sit for a few minutes more may fire back up and run okay or possibly after several minutes the stalling will repeat and the third time around will run fine. Read up on the cookie tin idea for getting hot is to your carb. |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42460
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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back the choke adjustment off so so that it just barely closes when cold. Use a thermal camera on the side of the thermostat to see if it is warming up.
And yes, old gas burns poorly. If it is more than a year old expect problems.
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kaleb555
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2024
Posts: 27
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
How old is the gasoline in your tank? You might get a portable can and stick a hose down into it, running the other end to the fuel pump inlet and see how that works for you. Ethanol laced fuel doesn't age well and will start to give problems with its been sitting in a steel tank in as little as a month.
Consider blocking the choke butterflies open for now. A short piece of 1/2" diameter dowel rod will work. Start the engine and let it warm for a minute or so and then stick the dowel rod down past the butterfly in a way that will hold it open. A 1/2" rod should not be able to make it down passed the booster venturis.
It's likely that what you are seeing is carburetor icing. If that is so the engine will die a few minutes after a cold start and if you let it sit for a few minutes more may fire back up and run okay or possibly after several minutes the stalling will repeat and the third time around will run fine. Read up on the cookie tin idea for getting hot is to your carb. |
The fuel is definitely on the older side, havent had a good cruise in her since November of 2024 (when the issues started to arise). I did notice when I had her idling today (for about 5 min, then she started to stumble) that there was a lot of sweating on the carb and intake manifold. Is this a sign of carb icing?
If the issue is in fact carb icing, why would this issue just come out of nowhere?Could it have been something I messed up when rebuilding the carb? How does one go about fixing this? |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42460
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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did this start when you rebuilt the carb?
The sweating means that the manifold is cold. I suspect the problem is you don't have it properly adjusted. There are a lot of different settings when properly rebuilding a carb.
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Abscate
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Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23836
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 1:45 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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When it’s cool and damp gas will condense in a cold carb and cause pig rich running. That’s why your Bus came with two expensive carbs on heat risers and a warm air box rather than a single carb on long runners with no preheat, and that’s the solution. People in desert climates like AZ ans CA can get away with the single carb, we in the normal climes cannot
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wagen19
Samba Member
Joined: November 16, 2007
Posts: 668
Location: germany
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:06 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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| kaleb555 wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
How old is the gasoline in your tank? You might get a portable can and stick a hose down into it, running the other end to the fuel pump inlet and see how that works for you. Ethanol laced fuel doesn't age well and will start to give problems with its been sitting in a steel tank in as little as a month.
Consider blocking the choke butterflies open for now. A short piece of 1/2" diameter dowel rod will work. Start the engine and let it warm for a minute or so and then stick the dowel rod down past the butterfly in a way that will hold it open. A 1/2" rod should not be able to make it down passed the booster venturis.
It's likely that what you are seeing is carburetor icing. If that is so the engine will die a few minutes after a cold start and if you let it sit for a few minutes more may fire back up and run okay or possibly after several minutes the stalling will repeat and the third time around will run fine. Read up on the cookie tin idea for getting hot is to your carb. |
The fuel is definitely on the older side, havent had a good cruise in her since November of 2024 (when the issues started to arise). I did notice when I had her idling today (for about 5 min, then she started to stumble) that there was a lot of sweating on the carb and intake manifold. Is this a sign of carb icing?
If the issue is in fact carb icing, why would this issue just come out of nowhere?Could it have been something I messed up when rebuilding the carb? How does one go about fixing this? |
What about performance??? OK or weak?
Since when the trouble?
SUGGEST:
fresh fuel (evtl. from canister)
check ignition system completely (qu: all 4 plugs, the correct ones, fouled?)
remove the airfilters and their ground plate on the carbs completely and try again
EDIT:
On a carb like that, I had found out, the vacuum chanel was on wrong position and was not compatible with any orig. VW distributer. => orig. 009 for ex.
Which timing at 3500 rpm?
(no Diesel in tank)
Last edited by wagen19 on Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52319
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 2:20 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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| kaleb555 wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
How old is the gasoline in your tank? You might get a portable can and stick a hose down into it, running the other end to the fuel pump inlet and see how that works for you. Ethanol laced fuel doesn't age well and will start to give problems with its been sitting in a steel tank in as little as a month.
Consider blocking the choke butterflies open for now. A short piece of 1/2" diameter dowel rod will work. Start the engine and let it warm for a minute or so and then stick the dowel rod down past the butterfly in a way that will hold it open. A 1/2" rod should not be able to make it down passed the booster venturis.
It's likely that what you are seeing is carburetor icing. If that is so the engine will die a few minutes after a cold start and if you let it sit for a few minutes more may fire back up and run okay or possibly after several minutes the stalling will repeat and the third time around will run fine. Read up on the cookie tin idea for getting hot is to your carb. |
The fuel is definitely on the older side, havent had a good cruise in her since November of 2024 (when the issues started to arise). I did notice when I had her idling today (for about 5 min, then she started to stumble) that there was a lot of sweating on the carb and intake manifold. Is this a sign of carb icing?
If the issue is in fact carb icing, why would this issue just come out of nowhere?Could it have been something I messed up when rebuilding the carb? How does one go about fixing this? |
Carb icing is related to temperature and humidity. It is typically worse at around 45-55°F when the relative humidity is high. If you want to stick with a center mount carb the solution is to provide hot air to the carb. As I mentioned search for the cookie tin idea. On a '73 you may have remnants of the original factory intake air preheat set up which you can utilize.
Here is Gary Massin-Ball describtion of the cookie tin idea:
| Quote: |
| You need a warm air intake box. You can mcgiver one out of a "danish cookie can". and some OE bits. Just attach the lid of the cookie can upside down under the air filter bottom bracket then reassemble the air filter back on. Then take the base of the can and add a 2" nozzle ( i use the connector pipes from the stock beetle muffler) and just pop rivet it to the cookie can base. Then place the bottom part of the can onto the inverted lid attached to the carb add the 2" fresh air hose down to a hot air intake elbow through the tin to the cylinder head and the progressive will run perfectly in cold weather. In the summer just remove the bottom end of the can. |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1974539&highlight=cookie+tin#1974539
I built my own heated intake air system 35 years ago as shown below and it still works well. I originally grabbed the hot air from the right heater box, but later got all the VW parts for the 72-74 model air preheat and used them, which gave quicker heat. I just adapted an air cleaner from a circa '75 Datsun to work, but many different air cleaners of the era would do just as well.
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kaleb555
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2024
Posts: 27
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 10:14 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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| SGKent wrote: |
did this start when you rebuilt the carb?
The sweating means that the manifold is cold. I suspect the problem is you don't have it properly adjusted. There are a lot of different settings when properly rebuilding a carb. |
This issue did start after the carb rebuild. Could it be a jetting issue? Also, when I was adjusting the Fuel air mixture, I noticed there was no fluctuation in the quality of idle.
Per the instructions, I screwed in the mixture screw until it just barely set, then backed out a 1/4 turn at a time. But when doing this, the engine never started to stumble or revs increase. So, finding the "sweet spot" wasn't possible.
Could this be a timing issue? I haven't been able to set timing, other than static because I cant get the motor to run long enough without fouling the plugs... |
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kaleb555
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2024
Posts: 27
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 10:17 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| kaleb555 wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
How old is the gasoline in your tank? You might get a portable can and stick a hose down into it, running the other end to the fuel pump inlet and see how that works for you. Ethanol laced fuel doesn't age well and will start to give problems with its been sitting in a steel tank in as little as a month.
Consider blocking the choke butterflies open for now. A short piece of 1/2" diameter dowel rod will work. Start the engine and let it warm for a minute or so and then stick the dowel rod down past the butterfly in a way that will hold it open. A 1/2" rod should not be able to make it down passed the booster venturis.
It's likely that what you are seeing is carburetor icing. If that is so the engine will die a few minutes after a cold start and if you let it sit for a few minutes more may fire back up and run okay or possibly after several minutes the stalling will repeat and the third time around will run fine. Read up on the cookie tin idea for getting hot is to your carb. |
The fuel is definitely on the older side, havent had a good cruise in her since November of 2024 (when the issues started to arise). I did notice when I had her idling today (for about 5 min, then she started to stumble) that there was a lot of sweating on the carb and intake manifold. Is this a sign of carb icing?
If the issue is in fact carb icing, why would this issue just come out of nowhere?Could it have been something I messed up when rebuilding the carb? How does one go about fixing this? |
Carb icing is related to temperature and humidity. It is typically worse at around 45-55°F when the relative humidity is high. If you want to stick with a center mount carb the solution is to provide hot air to the carb. As I mentioned search for the cookie tin idea. On a '73 you may have remnants of the original factory intake air preheat set up which you can utilize.
Here is Gary Massin-Ball describtion of the cookie tin idea:
| Quote: |
| You need a warm air intake box. You can mcgiver one out of a "danish cookie can". and some OE bits. Just attach the lid of the cookie can upside down under the air filter bottom bracket then reassemble the air filter back on. Then take the base of the can and add a 2" nozzle ( i use the connector pipes from the stock beetle muffler) and just pop rivet it to the cookie can base. Then place the bottom part of the can onto the inverted lid attached to the carb add the 2" fresh air hose down to a hot air intake elbow through the tin to the cylinder head and the progressive will run perfectly in cold weather. In the summer just remove the bottom end of the can. |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1974539&highlight=cookie+tin#1974539
I built my own heated intake air system 35 years ago as shown below and it still works well. I originally grabbed the hot air from the right heater box, but later got all the VW parts for the 72-74 model air preheat and used them, which gave quicker heat. I just adapted an air cleaner from a circa '75 Datsun to work, but many different air cleaners of the era would do just as well.
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Ok, this makes since! I guess the only reason i'm puzzled is because this had never been an issue until I took the carb apart. She would start up all year long a drive just fine, in whatever weather. |
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kaleb555
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2024
Posts: 27
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 10:21 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| When it’s cool and damp gas will condense in a cold carb and cause pig rich running. That’s why your Bus came with two expensive carbs on heat risers and a warm air box rather than a single carb on long runners with no preheat, and that’s the solution. People in desert climates like AZ ans CA can get away with the single carb, we in the normal climes cannot |
This motor was built in NV. Since then this van has traveled anywhere from California, all the way to Arkansas, which has been her home for about 5 years now & have never ran into any of these issues, until I took the carb apart. |
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42460
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 10:27 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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if you changed the jetting put the original back. Did you keep the old gaskets to compare them. There can be subtle differences, a hole in the wrong place etc.
http://www.theguestroom.net/manuals/32-36.pdf
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kaleb555
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2024
Posts: 27
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 11:32 am Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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Thanks for this resource! Lots of info in here I've never seen.
The main gasket was a bit different from the original. I've order 3 different kits that all say they fit the 32/36 DFAV, but were all a lot bigger/didnt have the same holes, even the one I received from Weber. The one I ended up using fits, but some of the holes were different.
Any pointers on finding an actual replacemnt would be awesome |
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lil-jinx
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Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1569
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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why did you rebuild the carb was it causing problems or was it routine maintance,
a weak ignition system or cold running plugs could also cause fouling,
are the plugs black wet or black soot
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy sold dec 2024
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42460
Location: at the beach
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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i confess that one time on my opal GT in my 20's I used a similar but not exact gasket and the car ran with lots of problems. Even a German mechanic struggled to find the problem. He finally put the right gasket in and it was fine. Really have to inspect the gaskets carefully because they can expose or block passages. Do you still have the old gaskets?
Did you get them from here http://redlineweber.com/html/application_guide/repair_kits_gasket_kits_and_key_.htm
One caveat is that if the carb is more than three years old, I would replace the floats when you rebuild it. They absorb oils in the fuel which makes them heavier so they don't work as well. Some people have trouble with the power valve, and the gasket(s) for it, if they are replaced have to match too.
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kaleb555
Samba Member
Joined: October 01, 2024
Posts: 27
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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| lil-jinx wrote: |
why did you rebuild the carb was it causing problems or was it routine maintance,
a weak ignition system or cold running plugs could also cause fouling,
are the plugs black wet or black soot |
Well, originally, my issues were because of the ignition system. I replaced just about everything and decided to rebuild the carb while I had everything apart as regular maintenance.
Plugs are black and wet |
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lil-jinx
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Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1569
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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ok so after you repaired the ignition and before you rebuilt the carb it ran ok?
how long/far between the ignition work and the carb rebuild ?
does it smoke when running ,black smoke or blue ?
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy sold dec 2024
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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lil-jinx
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Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1569
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2025 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bay Window - Keeps Fouling Plugs |
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I just went and read your other two threads with this issue,I now wonder if the fouling is just a progression of your ignition problem.throwing parts at a problem seldom fixes it and often just complicates diagnosing it.
from your first post I gather,you pulled out a svda dist and drop in a 009 ,just pluck and plop no check rotor position or the drive dog ,then you had a hard time starting it ,but did get it going ,without a timing light,a timing scale and not knowing where the timing marks were on the fan,but you got it going ,then you drove it for few trips and it started acting up so you replaced some ignition parts,which didn,t help so you installed a china carb which was no good then you put a kit in the orginal carb,and after much fudging around ,here we are.
is that about right.
not sure but have you removed the 009 and replaced it with a svda ,your fist post I,m running a svda .. should it say i was running a svda and replaced it with a 009 ,just want to be clear on what dist you have.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy sold dec 2024
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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