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Bostig RG6 and beyond
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:34 am    Post subject: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Howdy Volks,
In anticipation of RG6 shipping in mid January, I am creating a thread for those who have kits coming.

I have plenty to share and a bunch of Zetecs to build up with RG6 kits.

First off, if you have a kit ordered, feel free to post your enthusiasm....this is your thread.

More to come.

Cheers,
Dylan

Moderator note:
This person is not associated with Bostig and is not selling anything at this time.
This thread is for discussion only.
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Franagon
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

I am in on RG6 and have anticipated a Bostig for some time. I have a 2WD Westy, and I feel my 1.9 does pretty darn good, just would like a little more (than not much) on hills and I want to put kayaks on, etc. The reliability and the modern engine is the key I think. I am currently searching for engines, and have my eye on a couple good possibilities. Work just keeps me from getting out on a good engine hunt. I think after Thanksgiving I will land an engine and start getting it ready, along with sourcing the rest of the parts via local salvage yard or the interweb. As they say, the build threads for these should not be really much to look at, and that is what I am hoping for. If I run across something I feel is unique or a 'watch out' I will post, but I am hoping for an uneventful conversion and back driving. I am glad we are on the RG6 thread, and thanks for initiating.
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raoul mitgong
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Dylan,
Not sure if this is the place to ask but I'm going to anyway. You mention performance upgrades. Terry Kay has also mentioned aftermarket modification to increase power in the Zetec in other threads. On the other end, I see the Bostig turbo upgrade seems to have stalled. So, if it isn't a turbo, what performance upgrades are available?
Thanks,

-d
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
Howdy Volks,
In anticipation of RG6 shipping in mid January, I am creating a thread for those who have kits coming.

I have plenty to share and a bunch of Zetecs to build up with RG6 kits.

First off, if you have a kit ordered, feel free to post your enthusiasm....this is your thread.

More to come.

Cheers,

Dylan


I have a kit ordered, but sadly I'm part of the RG7 group. I can still be excited for you all in the RG6 group though.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

HI and a general welcome to those that have posted thus far.

RG6 and beyond means starting with RG6...RG7...8..9.. Arrow

Feel free to post and be excited, you have a lot to be excited about.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

raoul mitgong wrote:
Dylan,
Not sure if this is the place to ask but I'm going to anyway. You mention performance upgrades. Terry Kay has also mentioned aftermarket modification to increase power in the Zetec in other threads. On the other end, I see the Bostig turbo upgrade seems to have stalled. So, if it isn't a turbo, what performance upgrades are available?
Thanks,

-d


I, just like everyone else, are waiting to see what Jim comes up with as a retail "power adder".

Even if nothing is offered, I have to repeat that I feel that the baseline Bostig RG conversions are awesome and fine just the way they are delivered.

Things I have sitting here to play with on one of my crate motors:

Worked custom head
Cams
Adjustable cam gears
Cast intake that I imported from England
65mm billet throttle body
Underdrive pulley
Race proven timing belt
Aftermarket stainless steel Ram's head exhaust header
Plus an entire internal rebuild kit with rods and pistons for race application

I am building a test stand to be able to run engines safely in my shop.
I am not saying that any of these parts will make a difference in performance when used with the Bostig kit, nor do I recommend just bolting things on to your engine if you are up and running and using your van as a daily driver.

I am playing with ideas and willing to have it amount to nothing....at such a large expense, most should wait for Jim to release the adder IMHO.
I do not have any answers yet, nor am I in any rush to do this.
I have tried a few of the listed bolt ons and like them, but only one at a time to see if there are any huge gains...non to speak of and in my previous posts, Jim commented that reflashing isn't needed for the bolt on, but again I have not installed all at one time.

I will show refinements I have made to the intake for gaining room and linking the filter to a snorkel.

Syncro transmission fluid cooling is all the rage, so I will show the trans and Bostig skid installed so the lines can be run, protected and placed for easy maintenance of the filter.

These are my plans.

Hope this helps answer your question.

Edited for spelling.


Last edited by insyncro on Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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raoul mitgong
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Dylan,

Yep, sounds like a good plan and thanks for the answer. Looking forward to the added columns on that list for Price and HP gain. Right? OK, at least price and estimated HP gain then?

I've got heavy vans, Colorado altitude, steep passes, and two kids with almost as much gear as me. I haven't driven a laden Bostig Westy or Syncro on our passes yet but my reading has me leaning toward EJ25 unless there is a reasonable power adder Zetec solution. Since I'll be doing the work, I'd rather install a Bostig due to time required between the two.

For me, it is a safety thing. 2nd gear up Eisenhower or Vail pass with others doing 70 or 80 needs to stop.

I've already stopped wasting money on oil and filters to save up for the conversion. Kind of joking.

-d
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

raoul mitgong wrote:
Dylan,

Yep, sounds like a good plan and thanks for the answer. Looking forward to the added columns on that list for Price and HP gain. Right? OK, at least price and estimated HP gain then?

I've got heavy vans, Colorado altitude, steep passes, and two kids with almost as much gear as me. I haven't driven a laden Bostig Westy or Syncro on our passes yet but my reading has me leaning toward EJ25 unless there is a reasonable power adder Zetec solution. Since I'll be doing the work, I'd rather install a Bostig due to time required between the two.

For me, it is a safety thing. 2nd gear up Eisenhower or Vail pass with others doing 70 or 80 needs to stop.

I've already stopped wasting money on oil and filters to save up for the conversion. Kind of joking.

-d


I have a friend, same locale, same heavy van, altitude...he is having SAH pull his fresh 2.5 Subie for a 1.8T...hope this helps.

D
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

raoul mitgong wrote:
Looking forward to the added columns on that list for Price and HP gain. Right? OK, at least price and estimated HP gain

-d


I am not posting either as days of dyno testing would be needed to be accurate.
Ford Focus groups can be a huge help for that if interested.
Pictures of the parts and mounted....for sure, no time line on any of that.

Please do your homework about Bostig and other conversions for your needs.
Some just don't make sense in my opinion.

I will not be selling, providing or installing any new conversions after what I have been hired to do thus far.

My shop will be for me and my vans only as of April 2016.
I am just posting this so there is no confusion about me making threads and trying to line up work.

Thanks.

D
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

I am in rg6 and couldn't be more excited to get started. I am doing it for the reliability (so my wife doesn't have a panic attack before every long trip we take in The van!) and for the added power to get up the mountain passes in my area of the Tetons. I will be tackling a few other systems this winter also. This will be by far my largest project on my van or any vehicle for that matter but I feel confident today...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

bsell17 wrote:
I am in rg6 and couldn't be more excited to get started. I am doing it for the reliability (so my wife doesn't have a panic attack before every long trip we take in The van!) and for the added power to get up the mountain passes in my area of the Tetons. I will be tackling a few other systems this winter also. This will be by far my largest project on my van or any vehicle for that matter but I feel confident today...


Welcome aboard.
Yes, your plan is a good one.
Reliability is at the forefront of the Bostig design philosophy.

Looking forward to you posting here with all the boxes delivered and your engine sitting in wait.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

This seems like the thread to answer a question that's been nagging on me a little since I started doing the research.

preamble:
This is a down the road plan, much down the road as I don't own a westy yet, and whatever I do get hopefully doesn't have an engine that needs replacing.

Originally I had just planned to go with a GW (or other) WBX rebuild, as there is really no way I can do the install myself I figured replacing one WBX with another WBX would make things a little easier (and hopefully a touch less expensive) with the installer I go with. Due to another thread regarding a possible purchase I was persuaded that other options beyond the WBX might not be bad to do the research into, and what I'm finding is that in terms of swapping out engines, the Bostig conversion is damn near plug-and-play for lack of a better term. The question I have is this: If I were to go the bostig route, source the parts needed for the swap (per the Bostig manual,) would the install be easier or more difficult (and/or more expensive) than the WBX install? (keep in mind, I will have to pay a shop to complete this process for me.)


From all the things I've read, I'm liking the Bostig for the options it gives when it comes to repairs down the road... More available parts, that are generally cheaper. As well it seems from my reading that when something does go bad with the Bostig conversion those things tend to be less soul crushing and easier to get fixed.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

DwarfVader wrote:
This seems like the thread to answer a question that's been nagging on me a little since I started doing the research.

preamble:
This is a down the road plan, much down the road as I don't own a westy yet, and whatever I do get hopefully doesn't have an engine that needs replacing.

Originally I had just planned to go with a GW (or other) WBX rebuild, as there is really no way I can do the install myself I figured replacing one WBX with another WBX would make things a little easier (and hopefully a touch less expensive) with the installer I go with. Due to another thread regarding a possible purchase I was persuaded that other options beyond the WBX might not be bad to do the research into, and what I'm finding is that in terms of swapping out engines, the Bostig conversion is damn near plug-and-play for lack of a better term. The question I have is this: If I were to go the bostig route, source the parts needed for the swap (per the Bostig manual,) would the install be easier or more difficult (and/or more expensive) than the WBX install? (keep in mind, I will have to pay a shop to complete this process for me.)


From all the things I've read, I'm liking the Bostig for the options it gives when it comes to repairs down the road... More available parts, that are generally cheaper. As well it seems from my reading that when something does go bad with the Bostig conversion those things tend to be less soul crushing and easier to get fixed.


This is a really good question.

The swapping of engines is not that hard when you have support.
Bostig has great support.
Most, without much mechanical experience or fancy tools have done the conversion in a week end, in the driveway.

Swapping WBX engines can present some issues, like broken off bolts, extremely rusted and heat cycled parts and than the head gaskets.
Swapping in a rebuilt WBX is much easier than one that is pulled from a van and than purchased sight unseen or untested.

Paying a shop to do the Bostig conversion is a possibility, but if they don't have conversion experience and or Vanagon experience, it could get costly.

I have installed some for clients.
I give a decent price for the work involved and if the kit, engine and needed parts are purchased and supplied by the van owner, I say it's a piece of cake.
Shop opinions may vary.
If I provide the engine, I charge way more.
I am than responsible for not only the install, but the condition of the engine.

The Bostig conversion is designed for laypeople to install it.
There really is only one documented case I know of that someone got in way over their head and seems to be experiencing all sorts of issues.
The support Jim gives will of course help work all of that out.

Honestly, up until recently I would have said anyone could do this install Wink .
Each day I seem to be reminded that every person has their limitations.
I couldn't resist that last one, but seriously, I vote that you can do it and if not, using The Samba to find someone nearby to install the conversion for you has huge potential.

Thanks for the post and your Westy will come.
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DwarfVader
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
This is a really good question.

The swapping of engines is not that hard when you have support.
Bostig has great support.
Most, without much mechanical experience or fancy tools have done the conversion in a week end, in the driveway.

Swapping WBX engines can present some issues, like broken off bolts, extremely rusted and heat cycled parts and than the head gaskets.
Swapping in a rebuilt WBX is much easier than one that is pulled from a van and than purchased sight unseen or untested.

Paying a shop to do the Bostig conversion is a possibility, but if they don't have conversion experience and or Vanagon experience, it could get costly.

I have installed some for clients.
I give a decent price for the work involved and if the kit, engine and needed parts are purchased and supplied by the van owner, I say it's a piece of cake.
Shop opinions may vary.
If I provide the engine, I charge way more.
I am than responsible for not only the install, but the condition of the engine.

The Bostig conversion is designed for laypeople to install it.
There really is only one documented case I know of that someone got in way over their head and seems to be experiencing all sorts of issues.
The support Jim gives will of course help work all of that out.

Honestly, up until recently I would have said anyone could do this install Wink .
Each day I seem to be reminded that every person has their limitations.
I couldn't resist that last one, but seriously, I vote that you can do it and if not, using The Samba to find someone nearby to install the conversion for you has huge potential.

Thanks for the post and your Westy will come.


Doing it myself isn't so much a question of skill, from what I've seen from the Bostig manual so far (haven't read it all, but have given it a good once over) has shown that it's a crazy simple process... The problem I really have being able to do it myself is space and equipment.

I live in an apt building, and while we've got a pretty good sized lot, it's not one that I can leave any "non-running" vehicle in for more than a single day, not to mention the building management would heavily frown on me pulling an engine out of a vehicle in the lot... The other problem is equipment... I've got basic tools, and preform a variety of maint. on either of my rigs from time to time, but I don't have any kind of means to hoist an engine or really any of that caliber of weight... and sadly I must admit I don't really have much in the way of friends who would be even remotely useful in that regard. (I do HAVE friends, but of those friends I can convince most of them the "problem they are having with their car," is the direct result of low headlight fluid.)

I'm not challenging that "anyone can do it," and in fact it's that very reason I'm looking into the Bostig... I'm more than confident that if I had a driveway, a week, and all the parts I could probably get it figured out. (with some samba/bostig help.) I do however like the idea of possibly finding a Samba'ite nearby who could help facilitate said process though... I only know of one Samba'ite here in town, though I haven't seen him post in a while and know he runs a business here in town, so he might not be the best choice for said operation. (there is a fella in Bozeman who I know posts frequently who might be a good option.)

In the end, this is all research, I have to own the rig first. Wink But the more I know before doing anything, the better that anything will go.
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insyncro
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

DwarfVader wrote:
I have to own the rig first. Wink


I would highly recommend finding a Bostig converted Westy in good shape than.
Fly in, buy it, drive it home and enjoy it.

Way less work and same final outcome.

Win, win Exclamation
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DwarfVader
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

insyncro wrote:
DwarfVader wrote:
I have to own the rig first. Wink


I would highly recommend finding a Bostig converted Westy in good shape than.
Fly in, buy it, drive it home and enjoy it.

Way less work and same final outcome.

Win, win Exclamation


Ha ha, I'm just trying to find A rig that meets what I need. (both rig wise and financially) That said, I find one that meets the $$ and is a Bostig, I'll be on that business.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

DwarfVader,

I am in the same boat as you...looking for my van still and heavily leaning towards the Bostig for my future rig. I'm in Missoula and have a driveway. Let me know how the search goes.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Kkinsch wrote:
DwarfVader,

I am in the same boat as you...looking for my van still and heavily leaning towards the Bostig for my future rig. I'm in Missoula and have a driveway. Let me know how the search goes.


This is just one of the reasons why the Samba is great.

Fingers crossed for you both.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

For the power adders, since I started working on them in 2006, the goal was to add power without sacrificing the reliability of the NA zetec/conversion.

Right now people have to choose, although many don't realize what they are leaving on the table. Most people have the viewpoint that with a Bostig they are leaving power on the table, and they can get Bostig reliability with a subaru based conversion. In reality with a 2.5 Subie they are leaving reliability on the table, and with a 2.2 they are leaving both reliability along with no power advantage on the table.

The current turbo rev has been in testing since 2009. It is not dead. There have been 4 major revisions, non-intercooled, 2 air/water intercooled, and the air/air intercooled ones that have been running since 09. I don't like the turbo as a power adder for anyone. It has the upside of having upside. If you want to do a crazy build and make 400HP, you can, and break everything in your driveline as often as you want. But it has downsides in that its number of points of failure, modes of failure, and severity of outcome of failure are still such that not anyone can just run it and have it be reliabile, its compeltely subjective and varies by owner. That is not the solution that Vanagon owners need.

The alternative is the opposite, very few points of failure, very friendly modes of failure, and very low severity of outcome for even the most catastrophic modes of failure. Driving a syncro with 180HP and 200ft/lbs of torque that just keeps going and going is so great, more people need to experience it. I'd also like to help avoid more cases of the few unfortunate folks that inadvertently commit Subicide with a gremlin riddled setup after dumping ton's of money into the project to then perhaps scrap the whole idea of a van. People pull Subarus for Bostigs for reliability increases, they learned the hard way the extra 30HP wasn't worth the risks they didn't fully understand. People only pull Bostigs for more power. Like my original plan back in late 2004 called for, we need a good power adder. And I'm almost done.

Cheers,

Jim Akiba
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Bostig RG6 and beyond Reply with quote

Jim, Although I have been running EJ25's for the last ten years I am very grateful for all the work you have put into the Bostig conversion to keep our busses on the road reliably. Keep up the great work! Very Happy
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