Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cmayna
Samba Member


Joined: August 18, 2014
Posts: 863
Location: Menlo Park, CA
cmayna is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

Which is better? I would think a switch to the coil would prevent the motor from turning over versus if to the pump, the motor might be able to turn over via the key but will not fire up.

Yes I'm getting all fired up with the current number of Westy's being stolen and have decided to do something to my rig to help prevent theft, or at least to help make theft more difficult.

Yes, I'm also looking into a tracker.
_________________
'90 Full camper / automatic. If I'm not working on the camper or the truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
'50 chebbie truck

Craig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 8327
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

I think either way the engine will crank but not start.

The fuel pump cut-off is also useful when doing some other work on the van that requires switching the ignition on & off -- keeps the pump from cycling each time.

You might also be able to wire the switch to ground the coil rather than cut power to it. I have done that on some of my vehicles with points. Simpler to hook up as it only involves running one wire to the switch location (other pole of the switch is just grounded).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 11054
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

I personally am not in favor of a kill switch to the coil or fuel pump. It just adds another failure mode to the system if/when it starts to go bad. My kill switch cuts the power to the starter solenoid. It has nothing to do once the engine is running and so cannot cause an issue there. YMMV.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dhaavers
Samba Member


Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 6405
Location: NE MN (http://g.co/maps/zt72q)
dhaavers is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

OTOH, if you switch the FP you can also disable it when preparing to start after a long
sitting spell (every winter; Nov-Mar for me) to build oil pressure before starting.

Disabling only the coil for such purpose has the unfortunate consequence of
washing the cylinders with unburned fuel...counterproductive, as they say...<shrug>

- Dave
_________________
86 White Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"

<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 11054
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

For building oil pressure after a long wait just pull the spade from the pump. Takes 15 seconds. Very Happy
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
0to60in6min
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 2916
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
0to60in6min is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

how about put a kill switch on one of the wires from the ignition switch?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 11054
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

0to60in6min wrote:
how about put a kill switch on one of the wires from the ignition switch?


Maybe the one to the solenoid? Shocked Laughing
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
0to60in6min
Samba Member


Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 2916
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
0to60in6min is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

yup... the advantage is you don't have to run under the van a long wire from fuel pump or a very long wire from the coil....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Wildthings
Samba Member


Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 40986

Wildthings is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

dhaavers wrote:
OTOH, if you switch the FP you can also disable it when preparing to start after a long
sitting spell (every winter; Nov-Mar for me) to build oil pressure before starting.

Disabling only the coil for such purpose has the unfortunate consequence of
washing the cylinders with unburned fuel...counterproductive, as they say...<shrug>

- Dave


Hmm, doesn't the ECU needs a signal from the ignition to spray fuel?

It doesn't take much wire to break either the #15 ignition wire or the #50 starter wire. The fuel pump does take at least one long run of wire.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cmayna
Samba Member


Joined: August 18, 2014
Posts: 863
Location: Menlo Park, CA
cmayna is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
0to60in6min wrote:
how about put a kill switch on one of the wires from the ignition switch?


Maybe the one to the solenoid? Shocked Laughing


This prevents the motor from being turned over? If so, I likey likey.

Another idea to consider.

Thanks to all for the ideas. The sooner I get this done and behind me the better I will feel.


Oh and morning to all. Coffee on me. Very Happy

Craig
_________________
'90 Full camper / automatic. If I'm not working on the camper or the truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
'50 chebbie truck

Craig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dyldebus
Samba Member


Joined: August 11, 2015
Posts: 171

dyldebus is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

I went with the fuel pump because my relays are under the back bench and I already had a wire loom going from there to wear my switch is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Terry Kay
Banned


Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331

Terry Kay is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

There is a red wire from the battery to the neutral safely switch.
On the side of the base of the passenger seat install a Caterpillar keyed power switch.
Odd ball key, very few folks have a Cat key handy.

It breaks the power to the starter, it's a flat faced tumbler, nobody will know what it is.

Turn it on to start the Van, turn it off when you get out.

Simple, easy to mount, and effective.

Go to any Cat dealer and pick one up very reasonable.

Every Caterpillar has this power ,on & off switch, they do work well.
_________________
T.K.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 8327
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

Lots of ideas here - all are better than doing nothing at all.

I like the idea that the engine will crank but not start. Gives the thief some hope and visibility - shoot, if I saw him doing that with someone's van I would probably go over and offer to help.

Wouldn't disabling the starter solenoid still allow the van to start with a push or down-hill roll?

The Caterpillar gadget would be effective - but don't lose that key (or at least hide a spare somewhere). Also handy if you ever want to borrow a 777 Haul Truck from your local copper pit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cmayna
Samba Member


Joined: August 18, 2014
Posts: 863
Location: Menlo Park, CA
cmayna is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

Terry,
Are you referring to Caterpillar's split (two leg) key such as:

http://tornadoparts.com/644-thickbox_default/cater...7n0718.jpg

Yes, another great idea, especially if the key is flat. Getting way too many keys on the ring.
_________________
'90 Full camper / automatic. If I'm not working on the camper or the truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
'50 chebbie truck

Craig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 11054
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
Lots of ideas here - all are better than doing nothing at all.

Wouldn't disabling the starter solenoid still allow the van to start with a push or down-hill roll?



Yes, you could still bump start it if a manual. It would take a determined thief to decide to try to bump start it if he could not get the engine to turn over......
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cmayna
Samba Member


Joined: August 18, 2014
Posts: 863
Location: Menlo Park, CA
cmayna is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Ahwahnee wrote:
Lots of ideas here - all are better than doing nothing at all.

Wouldn't disabling the starter solenoid still allow the van to start with a push or down-hill roll?



Yes, you could still bump start it if a manual. It would take a determined thief to decide to try to bump start it if he could not get the engine to turn over......


Well, since ours is a AT Very Happy
_________________
'90 Full camper / automatic. If I'm not working on the camper or the truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
'50 chebbie truck

Craig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Terry Kay
Banned


Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331

Terry Kay is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

cmayna wrote:
Terry,
Are you referring to Caterpillar's split (two leg) key such as:

http://tornadoparts.com/644-thickbox_default/cater...7n0718.jpg

Yes, another great idea, especially if the key is flat. Getting way too many keys on the ring.


That's it.

Pretty simple, easy solution.
Got one in my 87.
_________________
T.K.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AndyBees
Samba Member


Joined: January 31, 2008
Posts: 1676
Location: Southeast Kentucky
AndyBees is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

If the kill switch is via the coil, positive side, while cranking the engine, the Injectors will not be activated.

The coil positive circuit, provides power to the Digifant Control Unit Relay and Fuel Pump Relay.

The power to be "relayed" by Digifant Relay and Fuel Pump Relay comes directly from the battery.

The Digifant Relay powers both low and 12 volts to the ECU. The Fuel Pump relay powers (12 volts) the Injectors and Fuel Pump.

Anyway, cranking the engine with no current to the coil will not result in fuel being injected .... at least two reasons, as reasoned above: no current to the Fuel Pump and no current to the injectors.

So, for a "kill switch " (and start preventer), I'd use the positive circuit to the coil. It "kills" both the ignition (fire) and fuel pump.

For a "no start", I might do as Terry K. suggested. When the ignition is turned to start (or hot wired under the steering wheel/dash) nothing will happen, just as if there is no battery!...... assuming I am understanding how TK is doing it.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top


Last edited by AndyBees on Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ahwahnee
Samba Member


Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 8327
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
Ahwahnee is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

Well, whatever you do - don't explain it in great detail on a public forum.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
cmayna
Samba Member


Joined: August 18, 2014
Posts: 863
Location: Menlo Park, CA
cmayna is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Kill switch to the coil vs fuel pump Reply with quote

I started to investigate Terry's idea by looking at the battery wires and the NSS wires. I do have a solid red wire at the battery but it does not go to the NSS. I assume it must go to the starter. With the red wire, there is a Red/white wire but haven't studied where it might go to.

At the NSS there are two Red/Blk heavy duty wires.

The more I snoop around the rig, the more I'm leaning towards killing the power at the coil (+), but it is still very early in the ball game. Taking the rig to bURNING vAN this weekend so can't take a chance in digging too deep.
_________________
'90 Full camper / automatic. If I'm not working on the camper or the truck, I'm either fishing with the wife or smoking Salmon.
'50 chebbie truck

Craig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB