Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Hello again, Ladies and Germs!
I have a 1990 Diesel Syncro (aaz). Two special apparatuses I have (and aren't in the Bible), are an air blower and an electric water pump.
Electric Water Pump
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Turbo Air Cooler (blows air on Turbo)
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Engine Bay
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Diagram of the Blower
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Way back when I had the original JX motor, on a very hot day, this guy was blowing HARD. I came back out of the shop (after 90 minutes), the thing was still blowing. I unplugged it, drove home. This is the last time I heard it run.

So, what does this have to do with the water pump, I hear you ask?
Well, today I was changing my oil lines (the silvery bits in the big picture), and I decided to put my multi-meter on the two respective plugs.
I didn't get anything useable....
Anyway, as the motor was running, and had reached operating temperature, I had the blower plugged in, and when I unplugged the electric WP, the blower started blowing Shocked
I plugged the WP back in, and it stopped Rolling Eyes

After shutting off the van, once again the blower just kept running. For 30 minutes (longer than the van had idled).

VW doesn't have a wiring diagram for me to use. Go figure.
I don't want to strip the wiring harness (I still have to drive, after all), and I'm not as up on Diesels as I am with Gas engines. So, Im kind of in the dark as to where wires go, which sensors control what, and how two interact with each other.

So, help?

I want the stock equipment to work as designed. It is a Syncro Diesel, and I understand that these two bits in particular are for slow off-roading, so the engine doesn't melt.
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MsTaboo
Samba Member


Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 3001
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
MsTaboo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guro Reply with quote

The turbo cooling fan and the aux water pump are part of the same system on the 1.6TD JX to help cool the turbo when it gets too hot and to help cool it and the engine after the engine has been shut down. The aux water pump actually is to help cool the oil as it pumps water through the oil cooler.

As it was originally setup the turbo fan and the aux pump would run for a few moments after every startup to help keep the system functioning as the fan and pump can sometimes not run for many days/months depending on use based only on temp. (cold weather)


I'm not an expert on the systems wiring, but here are a couple diagrams I found when I owned my Syncro Tristar diesel.

http://syncrosport.com/info/wiring/VW_Transporter_80-92_TD_coolantpump.pdf

http://syncrosport.com/info/wiring/VW_Transporter_80-92_TD_turbo_cooling.pdf

You may want to go to the 80-90 site and ask questions there as the turbo diesels were never really sold here in North America (which is why the Bentley has no info) and the Brits have more experience.
http://www.club80-90.co.uk
The site has a Wiki section with some info.
_________________
Currently:
90 Syncro Westy/Zetec
-Syncro, the real deal-

The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance.
You can lead a person to reason but you can't make them think.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Waldi
Samba Member


Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1741
Location: Germany
Waldi is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guro Reply with quote

Fan and Pump are controled by - from the same sensor.
But the fan has a relais. Looks like this is broken. It is located behind/over the fan.
Did you use all sensors from JX ?
The original wire from pump on the sensor is braun/red.
If you have the old system you have a 1 pin sensor. New system has 2 pin sensors. If you put the 1 pin wire on mass, the fan and pump should run. If you connect the 2 pins together, also.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

The pump and blower both have two wires.
Which sensor controls them? Or should I just replace them all (four or five...)?
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Waldi
Samba Member


Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1741
Location: Germany
Waldi is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:18 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Ofcourse the pump and fan has 2 wires, but there are sensors with 1 or 2.
The JX has 3 water sensors, gauge, gowing, pump/fan. How many are on your AAZ ?
If you dont find the braun/red wire on the sensor, check the right wire by overbridge.
If you use the original AAZ sensors, you dont have the right sensor for the pump/fan.
The AAZ use one 4 pin double sensor for gauge and glowing located on the top of head.
The earlie JX use aluminium water tube connections with 2 one pin sensors on the front end of the head and 1 one pin sensor on the top of head.
The new JX use plastic water tube connections with 2 two pin sensors on the the head and 1 two pin sensor on the head front end (water tube to heater).
Originaly JX has the sensor for pump/fan on the front end.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

ok, I will take some pictures of my set-up, so I can understand what you are saying.
I am using the original JX (alu) connectors. On the back of the head, the connector has two one pin sensors.
On the side of the head, by the glow plugs, is the other connector, and it has one sensor.
Then I have two oil sensors. Both are one pin sensors.
I'm not sure at the moment which wires serve which sensors.
Any idea what the relay number is for this fan?
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Waldi
Samba Member


Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1741
Location: Germany
Waldi is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

No pics needed from my side.
The sensor by the glow plugs is for the gauge.
You can test it by connecting it direkt to the engine/mass. The gauge should rise to max.
Your glowing works correct ? Glowing time with hot engine is short ?
Than you have the wires correct on the both sensors in front of the head.

Put one wire off there and check if the glowing is working.
Than you have 1 wire left on the sensor for fan/pump.
If you connect this wire direct to the engine/mass, the pump and fan should work.
The sensor for glowing is a resistance sensor.
The sensor for fan/pump is a on/off sensor.

No idea what number the relais is.
Its a normal 4 pin relais. You can easy get ist out and check it.
As i told the relais is behind the left rear light, where the fan is. Only 1 relais there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:36 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Vielen Dank, Kumpel.
Heute morgen habe ich ein bissien Aufgabe, aber später (nachmittags) werden ich am Bulli arbeiten...
Ich werden schrieben was ich finde..
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Ok, Kiddies!
I followed Waldi's advice, and sure nuff, the WP and Air Blower both fired right up!
I swapped the wires on the two temp senders, and my temp gauge nose dived. It went from 'Operating Temperature' to 'barely warm'.
Waldi- sind dieser sensoren gleich?

For the moment, I have this wired into my oil cooler. So, when the oil cooler fan fires up, so too will the Turbo Cooler and Electric Water Pump.

When I can find the replacement sensors, maybe I wire it back the way it was.....
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Waldi
Samba Member


Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1741
Location: Germany
Waldi is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

There are 3 different sensors.
Temp gauge and preglowing are resistance controled, but still different.
So if you change the gauge and glowing wires, it will work, but not correct.
You can easy find out which sensor is where.
If you know the temp gauge wire, and your engine is warm not hot-hot, try all 3 sensors.
On the fan/pump sensor the temp gauge will not work.
Difficult to test the fan/pump sensor working in the engine.
Better put it off and test with a light or in hot water.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm not messing with the glow plug sensor.
But on the end of the head I have two. The one on the inboard side is the gauge. This should be the same for everyone else's.
On the outboard side, is where the second sensor resides.
I found it last week, and it was covered in corrosion.
I cleaned it up, and didn't think much of it.
Next time I can get it on the lift, I'll try to find a color for it.
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

So, I ended up replacing that sensor, and all is well (with that system...).


NEW QUESTION:
The new engine has just under 16,000 kilometers on it, and the AAZ pump was freshly rebuilt (by Bosch) at the same time.
Can anyone think of why the engine would be surging while driving?
In the meantime, the pump had been serviced (by the very same Bosch tech), and the fine tuning made (last year, during the 'It Started With A Thump' issue).

Also, this weekend, I'm planning on dropping the trans and replacing the main seals. At the same time, I will be dropping the tank and replacing the vent hoses and straps.
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 7829
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Team WorldTour wrote:
Can anyone think of why the engine would be surging while driving?


First make sure all FOUR of your pump to bracket mounting fasteners are tight. Next make sure that the pump bracket to block mounting bolts are tight.

If you confirm that the pump mounting is all correct and you still have a surging issue then give some more details on when it occurs. If it is when trying to cruise in low/partial pedal situations, then the 'residual pressure screw' (the screw the accelerator lever rests on at idle) is pushing the lever too high. You will need to lower the residual pressure screw and then readjust both your low and high idle using the correct idle screws and *not* the residual pressure screw. You may have to even adjust the alignment of the two parts of the idle lever to get it all correct.


Last edited by ?Waldo? on Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
MsTaboo
Samba Member


Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 3001
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
MsTaboo is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Team WorldTour wrote:
Can anyone think of why the engine would be surging while driving?

When you say surging, do you mean that it dies a bit and then comes back to full power?
I had this strange behavior with mine. It happened at hard acceleration and sometimes going over bumps, hard corners, etc. Turned out to be a slightly loose connection of the wire going to the fuel cut-off solenoid. The connection was just loose enough that it would cause the fuel to cut off for a moment. I crimped the connector a bit and all was well.
Just something to check.
_________________
Currently:
90 Syncro Westy/Zetec
-Syncro, the real deal-

The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance.
You can lead a person to reason but you can't make them think.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Thank you, Ms Taboo.
I will try that first, though when I get done with this weekend's job list, I will be going back to Bosch for the adjustments outlined by Mr. Libby.
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 7829
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Team WorldTour wrote:
Thank you, Ms Taboo.
I will try that first, though when I get done with this weekend's job list, I will be going back to Bosch for the adjustments outlined by Mr. Libby.


As I said, check the pump to bracket mounting and the bracket to block mounting first. The most common cause of surging is something coming loose and driving it that way is risky.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:16 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

As that is work I can confidently perform, it will be on the job list, however the adjustments to the idle screws and throttle linkage I will leave to those more knowledgeable than myself.
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

So, before I started the deep work yesterday, I checked the pump fit. Everything was tight as it should be. I did not mess with any adjustment screws.

On a side note, while driving to the Base yesterday, my temp gauge went a little high (just to the right of LED).
Coincidently, when I would floor it (as I must on occasion), I got black smoke coming from the exhaust.
This is the third time I have gotten black smoke at WOT (similar conditions).
Could I have a ruling from someone NOT on their first Diesel (like me!)?
Cheers!
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
?Waldo?
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 7829
Location: Where?
?Waldo? is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Team WorldTour wrote:
So, before I started the deep work yesterday, I checked the pump fit. Everything was tight as it should be.


Just double-checking, the two 10mm allen bolts behind the pump that mount the pump to the block are present and tight?

Team WorldTour wrote:
Coincidently, when I would floor it (as I must on occasion), I got black smoke coming from the exhaust.
This is the third time I have gotten black smoke at WOT (similar conditions).
Could I have a ruling from someone NOT on their first Diesel (like me!)?
Cheers!


Black smoke would be an indication of either too little air or too much fuel. If this happens now every time you floor it since you got the pump redone, then it is likely that the max fuel screw is set too high. If it just started happening at a time that cannot point to recent pump work, it may be as simple as a plugged air filter or other intake restriction.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Team WorldTour Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 2136
Location: Der Vaterland
Team WorldTour is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: I need a Syncro Diesel/ Electrical Guru Reply with quote

Filter is good, just checked it.
Two allen bolts under pump bracket, I'll check it in the morning.
As for the black smoke, it's not a regular thing. It happened twice before. The first time, I wrote it off as I was going up a small rise on the Autobahn, it was a warm day (for Germany), and the wind was blowing against me.
I did some reading that night.

The second time happened on the same stretch of road, only I was going downhill. This is when I started thinking about other possibilities.
Yesterday was the third time, and I was a bit more aware of my circumstances. The temp needle was just to the right of the LED. So engine being warm(er) is a factor.

Then yesterday I noticed this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It looks to me as if the rubber boot is collapsing.
Maybe, when the engine temps are just right, the boot gets soft, and the engine starves for air.
It's a thought.
_________________
1990 Feldjäger Syncro AAZ
Click to view image
H6 Subaru Engine Swap Thread
WV2ZZZ25ZFH094138(x)/ WV2YB0257LH057308(x)/ WV2ZZZ25ZLG113270/
"Where am I going? And what am I doing in this handbasket?" -Nicodemus Jordan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB