Summer engine into 68 Westy - questions

[soissisc]

So I have a 68 westy that I have had a type4 upright converted engine in for the past 10 years or so... I have pulled that out for a little disassembly, cleaning, etc. In the mean time I am looking to plug a motor in there for the summer / fall driving season. I have been type 4 pretty much all along, but I am very familiar with the type 1 engine, just not intricately familiar, if you get my drift.

I have a 1600(?) DP on hand and also a 1500(?) SP on hand. The 1600 DP I drove around in the bus for a little while, it has a 009 distributor, 34 Pict 3 carb and leaks oil from the push rod tubes, etc, and has a lot of end play - .020" +. It has a doghouse shroud. Both engine have been sitting in the barn for a good while collecting dust and spider webs.

The 1500 SP I have not driven too much, like up and down the driveway a couple times a looong time ago. It came to me about 25 years ago in a bug I bought from a college kid that had a lot of wiring issues (the car). I say it is a 1500 because I like to think that the engine was original to the car. I cannot verify this though. Anyway, this engine has a 30 PICT 1 carb and a vac adv dist. and everything looks fairly stock and original on this engine. The end play measures .006". It does have the 3 bosses for mounting in the bus but they need drilled and tapped. It does not have the dog house shroud.

I am leaning toward giving this 1500 SP a shot since the SP is what came in the bus originally. Should I consider moving the doghouse shroud over to this engine? Can you even do that? It looks like the oil cooler sits in a different place? Should I worry about it? We will probably do some camping this summer (heat!!).

Is that 30 PICT 1 with the vac only advance the stock set up? I have been searching and reading about the carbs etc and a lot of DP applications are discussed but I have some trouble with finding the SP set up described (except Robbie and he is running the is carb. thought I read that the 30 PICT 3 came stock. I know I have to see what dist is actually on the engine but without pulling it, I could not see any numbers.

Any other caveats you folks can think of when doing this? I am all ears, I would like to get an engine in and running by the end of this month.

Thanks in advance.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[Tcash]

Move the doghouse over, oil cooler adapter, oil cooler, Hoover bit, fan shroud w/flaps, wider fan, oil cooler air duct, top cylinder sheet metal tins. You will need to cut a hole in the front tin above the flywheel if you do not have a dog house tin.
Doghouse non doghouse Front tin.

Make sure you use the correct Oil cooler seals.
Oil cooler seals

Distributor
Distributor T2 Bus Bay window
Distributor Interchange Bosch To VW Number
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ovhignbo.htm

Dist carb matchup
http://www.vw-resource.com/carb_dist.html
http://www.aircooled.net/vw-distributor-options/

Good luck
Tcash

[soissisc]

TCASH thank you for the detailed response, and good to see you back around here.

It looks like the carb is a 30PICT1 ( Where is the base flange # located?) and the distributor is a 205K vac only adv unit. The vac can holds vacuum. Reading through some of the links that you provided it looks to be a matching pair for a 67 1500 engine.

So when I can get two of my boys to lift this engine off of the floor and up to my work bench I will start cleaning it up tearing it down to look a little closer inside the valve covers, spark plugs, etc and maybe move on with swapping over the dog house stuff.

A carb rebuild and distributor tear down and cleaning is in the plans also. I'll try to document the journey in this thread.

I am kind of excited to get this thing a little closer to stock.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

So looking at the "over cylinder tins" - the dual port vs. single port looks to leave a bit more gaps at the intake ports. Do I have to swap the over cylinder tins? Is there a single port dog house "over cylinder tin" in factory tin?

I have a doghouse front tin, but it is for a bug. I am going to add the metal needed for the bus configuration.
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

Just to confirm it, the DP over cylinder tins will not bolt right on the SP heads without modification. I do believe that the SP over cylinder tins can be used with the dog house shroud. I will confirm this soon.

This stuff has been in the barn for 20 years or so, so pardon the dust....

SP - port view

DP - port view

SP - top view - no air diverter due to the shape of the head. (?)

DP - top view - with air diverter - needed due to the shape of the head.

_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[soissisc]

So in the process of tearing down the engine, cleaning and fixing oil leaks, it was pretty clear I needed to replace push rod tube seals. So I pulled the heads and of course had to look them over and there appear to be no cracks that I can see in the combustion chamber area and no burnt valves. Some pieces of threads did come out when I pulled the plugs. Maybe I should helicoil the plug threads at this time?

Then of course I figured since I was that far I might as well pull the cylinders and reseal them to the case. And of course once that far might as well remove the pistons to make cleaning and sealing that much easier. I had to peek in the bottom end and nothing there visually looks worn abnormally (cam, lifters). At this point I did some checking and the rod side clearance to the crank comes in around .012 - .014 on all the rods. I measured the pistons to check for collapse and they are all OK it appears per Tom Wilson book. There is no ridge in the cylinders that I can feel at the top of the stroke. There is no obvious scuffing on the sides of the pistons.

At this point "should" I clean up the pistons, check the ring lands and if all checks out, order a new set of rings at the least and hone the cylinders? I was kicking around the idea of a valve job at this point but where do you stop? The bottom end is worn for sure. I am looking to drive this thing by late next month.

Where would you pick up a set of rings from for stock 1500? AutohausAZ?
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[Tcash]

Measure your pistons and rings before ordering. Might even call?
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SearchResults.asp?Search=piston+rings

Good luck
Tcash

Grab each rod by the small end and give it a shake. If there is more than a .001" play. Pull the rod and measure it or plastigauge it.
Put some rage in the spigots so the rods won't hit them. Hold the rods horizontal to the case and drop them. Note if any of them hang up. If they all drop the same your ok.

[rockerarm]

Hi. I don't recall you checking this but you mentioned the 1500SP came to you via a bug. You need to verify the engine case has the provisions for the rear engine mount hanger, commonly called the moustache bar. You should see 2 10mm threaded holes at the 3 and 9 O'clock position from the oil pump and a 8mm threaded hole at the 6 O'clock position. Or some cases have the boss' on the case but not drilled/tapped. Lacking this feature would require you to use the adaptor plate which takes the place of the oil pump cover.
Hope this helps, Bill.

[Tcash]

ZENVWDRIVER
i had to use this adapter when fitting a 1500 bug engine into my 1968 bay bus...

Engine Mount Adaptor
http://www.busdepot.com/0091480

[Clara]

It looks like you slid right down that slippery slope.

FWIW, use the cylinder tin that matches the heads.. single port or dual port.
You can fit doghouse on non doghouse on either SP or DP. I have long been a fan of doghouse on a single port.

The bug front tin is shorter than the 68-71 front tin shown in the pic above.

[Manfred58sc]

That adapter non-sense will leak shortly after install. There is a way to make it work, you need a thin nut between the adapter and the oil pump plate. Then the second nut as shown. It may require a longer stud
_________________
Fat chick owner/operator

[Bulli Klinik]

They don't call them adapt-a-leaks for nothing!
_________________
I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[soissisc]

The case does have the bosses, just need tapped. I do have an adapt-a-leak plate, just in "case".

I wiggle the rods, they have the .012 - .014 side clearance to the crank, and I cannot feel any slop on the diameter. I don't think that I need to plastic gage them. Is there a more scientific way to test? They all fall equally easy.

I am going to clean up the pistons today, later, and do some measuring. I will report back.

[rockerarm]

[soissisc]

[rockerarm]

[soissisc]

So are you saying split the case?
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[rockerarm]

[soissisc]

I see, that would be an option. I have never replaced rods before. Can you get a mic in there to measure the crank, or do you just measure the rods when you take them out to know what you need to order? Then there is the small end. Mic the pin? Or do those always stay a std. size? What about the thickness of the rod? Do you measure the crank journal widths?
You have to forgive me and my stupid questions, I have not done this before. I appreciate the insight.

Mark
_________________
Mark

68 Westy
92 Jetta (oh it is retired)
99 Eurovan
05 NBC
06 Audi A3
72 Westy (I am going to fix it up)

[rockerarm]