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SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong.
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davideric9
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

Working my way into installing a used engine EG33. Looks to me like this timing belt is installed wrong - marks don't line up. Please confirm that this belt needs to be repositioned. With the cam sprockets on their marks, the crank sprocket is way off. This is my first time working with a timing belt. Please help me through this.

Also, when installing the timing belt do I just line up the three marks OR do I need to get the crank sprocket aligned with to a certain cylinder at TDC?

Here are the marks...

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chompy
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

Although my timing belt experience is on many EJ22s and Volvos and not an EG33, it does look like your crank shaft sprocket is off by a few teeth. I would loosen the tensioner, pull the belt and readjust. I've used binder clips and regular springing clamps in the past to keep the belt tight on the cam shaft pulleys when putting the belt on. It helps quite a bit...

Hopefully you haven't turned the engine over much and didn't feel any sort of resistance. You don't want to bend those valves if the timing is off enough(although it almost looks like it's not off that much).
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wesitarz
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

I've only done a 2.5 SOHC. There should be 2 marks on the crank sprocket - a groove or slot for timing (pistons are midway) and an arrow or triangle for TDC. I don't see the groove or slot on the crank sprocket. I see timing marks on the belt. Was this belt already installed and you can turn it or have you just installed it now? I think both the 3 TDCs and the 3 timing marks line up with the marks on the engine if done correctly as I recall.
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davideric9
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

This is how I got the engine. Timing belt has not been removed. Not installed in the van yet. The EG33 is a non-interference engine (mostly). Ill take a closer look at the crank sprocket and see if another mark is hiding. Thanks for your replies.
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davideric9
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

I must have turned the crank about 6 times checking the marks on the belt with the marks on the sprockets. These photos are the closest it ever got.
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jordauto
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:12 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

Your cam timing marks are correct. The arrows point up and the marks line up with the marks on the plastic covers. The triangle mark on the crank sprocket is the tdc mark and not used for timing belt alignment. In your pic of the crank sprocket, the upper red circle you can see the alignment mark on the block casting. There should be a line in one of the teeth of the crank position sensor reluctor wheel that corresponds to the mark on the block. I believe the marks are the same as the 2.2.
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davideric9
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:30 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

Jordauto, Thanks for finding my mistake. I see where I went wrong, I'll look for the mark on the reluctor ring. I think the service manual says the marks on the belt should match the marks on the sprockets. This seems like a convenience item that will not affect the operation of the engine. Would you recommend moving the belt so the lines match the marks?
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wesitarz
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:37 am    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

davideric9 wrote:
Jordauto, Thanks for finding my mistake. I see where I went wrong, I'll look for the mark on the reluctor ring. I think the service manual says the marks on the belt should match the marks on the sprockets. This seems like a convenience item that will not affect the operation of the engine. Would you recommend moving the belt so the lines match the marks?


The lines on the belt are used for initial belt setup. Turn the crank a few turns to check and they no longer line up. (voodoo magic?) Use the timing notches on the sprockets to line up with the stationary notches only.
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Wellington
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:30 am    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

I'm curious why you are installing this motor in an unknown condition.
As in, was it running prior to you installing it in your van? If yes, the timing belt is correct. You will have some things to figure out in the conversion, condition of motor should not be one of them. 3.3 is non interference.
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davideric9
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

Family member ran a connecting rod through the case in current SVX conversation. The engine in question is sapre I took from crashed SVX at pick-N-pull. Engine looks like head gasket, water pump, and timing belt have been done. Generally a clean cared for engine. I have two spare engines and I'm trying to pick the best one. I'm not that committed to the SVX, a bit too much engine for me. So for now I just want to get this van back on the road without spending thousands of dollars. I have the California BAR sticker for this conversion, Syncro westfalia, and guess that's worth saving. Maybe I should be looking for a trade, I think the 2.2 would suit me. After studying Jwplate's rebuild, I decided these engines wear very slowly. I'm really on the fence about how much time and money to put into this engine. I guess I'm ready to drop it in and if it has any problems, look into the 2.2 downgrade. Advice?
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jordauto
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:43 am    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

As posted above. The lines on the belt are for the initial set up only, and as soon as you turn the engine over by hand to verify everything still lines up the belt lines will be off. So donít worry about them. Itís most likely everything is lined up correctly if the engine was running previously. I agree if you are just trying to get the van running and the timing belt service looks like it was recently done, then go ahead and install it as is. Run it for a week or so and make sure itís running ok and not burning oil. Then invest the time and money and do the timing belt service, spark plugs, thermostat and any other maintenance to give you trouble free service.
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davideric9
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

Well it appears that the triangle on the sprocket and the tick mark on the reluctor wheel are the same. That being the case, looks like the crank and cams were not properly aligned.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

You can just barely see the line above his red circle on the rear of the crankshaft pulley if you look closely. Its fairly easy to remedy, just loosen the tensioner, remove the belt and align it all correctly.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

This and other recent threads about Subaru timing belts jumping on the crank sprocket have made me nervous. I have learned that automatic engines (like my 2.2L) were not fitted with a guide to prevent the timing belt from jumping. Apparently this happens when the car is parked in gear without the parking brake set, which compresses the tensioner and leaves the belt slack enough to jump. Since all SVX were automatics, those engines are all missing the guide. I'm not going to take my engine apart to add the guide, but I will be aware of how I park. For new conversions, adding that missing guide seems like cheap insurance.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

It is my understanding that if your van has a manual trans you should have the belt guide so if the donor is auto trans you need to get one.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

wcdennis wrote:
This and other recent threads about Subaru timing belts jumping on the crank sprocket have made me nervous. I have learned that automatic engines (like my 2.2L) were not fitted with a guide to prevent the timing belt from jumping. Apparently this happens when the car is parked in gear without the parking brake set, which compresses the tensioner and leaves the belt slack enough to jump. Since all SVX were automatics, those engines are all missing the guide. I'm not going to take my engine apart to add the guide, but I will be aware of how I park. For new conversions, adding that missing guide seems like cheap insurance.


First I've heard of a guide.

I think this is the guide you are referring to:
https://www.amazon.com/Subaru-Timing-Belt-Guide-Kit/dp/B06XSTZ69V

I don't know that we have an existing provision for bolting that on.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

Here is the stock timing belt guide it bolts to the Oil pump and I believe they are all threaded for the 4 cylinder engines no idea about the 6's the second pic shows the oil pump with the threaded bosses.

Timing belt Guide

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Subaru-OEM-03-06-M-T-All-...mp;vxp=mtr

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Oil Pump

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Subaru-11mm-Oil-P...1438.l2649

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: SVX - Timing Belt sprocket alignment - Tell me this is wrong. Reply with quote

If I recall correctly (not a likely scenario), the SVX engine timing belt install is unusual because the belt and pulley marks are not set to be at TDC. The reason is that it is difficult to hold the cams at the correct position when the engine is at TDC, so Subaru created a procedure that requires the aligning marks to align at a point in the cams' rotations at which there is no net torque from valve springs acting to turn the camshafts. This is why the procedure feels so odd. Follow the Factory Service Manual and you will be fine.

Here is a link to the portion of the FSM that touches on the timing belt procedure which shows the key information at pages 21 to 30:

http://xtremeracingtuning.com/Information/H6DO/EG33%20Engine.pdf

The SVX does not use a timing belt guide. Do replace the idler pulleys with quality units and replace the tensioner if the existing one seems at all dodgy. One last pointer: Subaru rubber seals on the SVX, especially the cam bore "half moon" seal areas, do not hold back oil for long at all. This is easily cured by assembling with Loctite 518 which I have used on several engines to make (and keep) them absolutely leak free. Without this (or a similar product), the cam covers start to seep rather quicker than you would expect.

Get the large size, which is not depicted in the below Amazon advert:

https://www.amazon.com/Loctite-50ml-Gasket-Eliminator-Tube/dp/B000FONONG
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