Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Diagnosing shifter issues
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tthoms
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2016
Posts: 166
Location: Los Lunas, NM
tthoms is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

I've done a search on the issue, and I could find a post that exactly fit my case. I've been tooling around in my '71 bug, and I'm noticing that when I depress the clutch and move the shifter, it takes like a second or two for the shifter to allow itself to move into the desired gear. Upshifting, down shifting through any gear, it doesn't seem to matter as far as I can tell. Downshifting to second has enough resistance that I often find myself in fourth gear.
I have no problem getting into reverse.

There's not a lot of play in the clutch (again, as far as I can tell). I'm quite a novice at VW mechanics, and I'm in this late enough that I'm not 100% certain how it's supposed to feel.

Any tips as to where I should start looking to resolve this?

Thanks in advance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Coyotemutt
Samba Member


Joined: June 16, 2017
Posts: 218
Location: Pecos, New Mexico
Coyotemutt is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Kinda sounds like you might not have the Bowden tube in place. My shifting gets imprecise like that when the cable starts to stretch or when (over a decade ago) I first got the car and the Bowden tube was missing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tthoms
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2016
Posts: 166
Location: Los Lunas, NM
tthoms is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Coyotemutt wrote:
Kinda sounds like you might not have the Bowden tube in place. My shifting gets imprecise like that when the cable starts to stretch or when (over a decade ago) I first got the car and the Bowden tube was missing.


I had a look. I found the Bowden tube (as well as a black widow nest, ugh), so that's not the issue. I gave the adjuster another full twist to see what difference that made. Unfortunately, it's raining now, and the car's not ready for rain.

I shifted through all of the gears with the engine off. Lots of noise coming from the shifter, and some resistance in the process of shifting. I don't know if that means anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
modok
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 21337
Location: Colorado Springs
modok is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

If it's not grinding going into reverse, then the clutch is letting go just fine.
What about the oil in the transmission?
is it full of sludge? air? or oil of some known qualities?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Casting Timmy Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: August 04, 2012
Posts: 1042
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Casting Timmy is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

If you make a lot of noise shifting through the gears with the engine off, I'd start there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
rs58rag
Samba Member


Joined: August 22, 2010
Posts: 418
Location: riverside,ca
rs58rag is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Easiest check is the coupler that connects the shift rod to the transmission, located under rear seat. Then there's a shift rod bushing just behind the shifter in the tunnel. Also shifter could be worn or defective, check ball end that connects to shift rod socket. Seen some dry, gouged up, unmaintained shifter ends.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tthoms
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2016
Posts: 166
Location: Los Lunas, NM
tthoms is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

modok wrote:
If it's not grinding going into reverse, then the clutch is letting go just fine.
What about the oil in the transmission?
is it full of sludge? air? or oil of some known qualities?


I checked the oil a few months back. It was at the right level, and the sample I took from the top looked pretty good. However, it was from the PO, so I don't know the history. I'd better change it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tthoms
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2016
Posts: 166
Location: Los Lunas, NM
tthoms is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

rs58rag wrote:
Easiest check is the coupler that connects the shift rod to the transmission, located under rear seat. Then there's a shift rod bushing just behind the shifter in the tunnel. Also shifter could be worn or defective, check ball end that connects to shift rod socket. Seen some dry, gouged up, unmaintained shifter ends.


I'll poke around there, I've never really had a good look at these parts before. I'm hoping that if there is a problem. it will be obvious.

Thanks to all!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VW_Jimbo Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: May 22, 2016
Posts: 4339
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
VW_Jimbo is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

I agree that the coupler sounds bad. The rubber side pieces sometimes become gummy. That causes a strange shift into and out of gears. Quick check will let you know.
_________________
Jimbo
ASE Master Technician

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

Ricksurfin wrote:
First world fast guy problems. Sheesh. Lol

67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tthoms
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2016
Posts: 166
Location: Los Lunas, NM
tthoms is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Okay, I went in and examined the contact points in question.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The coupler needs a cleaning, and there's some play in it when the shifter is moved. There's also a piece of safety wire towards the back, securing the back screw. I don't know how it is supposed to look, so I can't see anything wrong with it.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The shifter itself. I can't see anything wrong with that either.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The shifter plate and socket. As far as I can tell, ok from this angle.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's where I get nervous. There's a plastic ring around the rod that leads to the back. It seems to be split, and slides freely on the shaft.

That's bad, isn't it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
67rustavenger Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: February 24, 2015
Posts: 4642
Location: Hillsboro, Or.
67rustavenger is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It slides freely on the shaft. Or the shaft slides through the bushing freely?
Makes a difference.
All of the bushings I have ever looked at are split and and have a retaining ring around the forward end of the bushing.
_________________
There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
66brm
Samba Member


Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 3443
Location: Perth Western Australia
66brm is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Wiggle the coupler back and forth, both shafts should move together, if they don't then there's a big part of the problem. Looks like the safety wire for the lock screw has broken
_________________
Aust. RHD 66 Type 1
Aust. RHD 57 Type 1 Oval

modok wrote:
I am an expert at fitting things in holes, been doing it a long time
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tthoms
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2016
Posts: 166
Location: Los Lunas, NM
tthoms is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

66brm wrote:
Wiggle the coupler back and forth, both shafts should move together, if they don't then there's a big part of the problem. Looks like the safety wire for the lock screw has broken


I'll check tomorrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tthoms
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2016
Posts: 166
Location: Los Lunas, NM
tthoms is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

67rustavenger wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

It slides freely on the shaft. Or the shaft slides through the bushing freely?
Makes a difference.
All of the bushings I have ever looked at are split and and have a retaining ring around the forward end of the bushing.


I can spin bushing around and slide it up and down the shaft with a q-tip.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 23460
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Sounds like the shift bushing is no longer seated in the hole in the bracket, like you need a new shift bushing.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2005 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 26773
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

New one looks like this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is a diagram to help you:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There are threads on how to replace this. It's a greasy job but that, along with replacing or refurbishing the coupler under the seat, will make it shift much better. Don't take shortcuts, or you will be doing it again shortly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Cusser
Samba Member


Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 23460
Location: Hot Arizona
Cusser is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

I just replaced the factory shift bushing on my 1970 a few months ago, with photos on page 21 of my resurrection thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=400


I did this 2 decades ago on my 1971 Super, was a little easier because the shift rod on a 1971 Super can move forward enough so taking off front panels is not necessary.

Apparently German-made shift bushings are available, from advertisers like CB Performance.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2005 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
tthoms
Samba Member


Joined: October 27, 2016
Posts: 166
Location: Los Lunas, NM
tthoms is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for the tips and links. I plan on replacing the bushing, and though its not obvious they need it, the rubber parts of the coupler. Ordering the parts today.

Thanks again!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mcmscott
Samba Member


Joined: March 12, 2010
Posts: 4194
Location: sanger ca
mcmscott is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

If you replace the coupler, re-use the original cage, throw the new one in the trash and just use the new bushings.
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,

68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 26773
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing shifter issues Reply with quote

mcmscott wrote:
If you replace the coupler, re-use the original cage, throw the new one in the trash and just use the new bushings.


X2, all the metal parts of the kits I've seen are garbage. The rubber is what you are after; that's usually all that wears.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB