Fuel tank outlet seal

[Ericlottaallthat]

I was wondering if this is the order that the seals go onto the fuel outlet. Does the washer on the screen need a seal? Should I leave the screen on?

[SGKent]

leave the screen on - it is the first line of defense against debris. Can't tell you about the seals.
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[EDragnDean]

If memory serves, red washer on the left goes on top of the screen, not under.
left to right (or top to bottom)- washer, screen, neck, washer, nut
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[raygreenwood]

Get rid of the screen. You can install an external inline strainer with the same exact function....keeping grit out of the pump....for less than $5.

Outside of that...mhaving a sock filter in the tank ...where there is no fuel pump in the tank to require it to be inside of there.....is kind of ludicrous. Its quite common that they silt up and starve the pump.

When you then roll to a stop in the middle of nowhere.....you best have a large container on hand to catch all of the fuel as you pull out the tube and clogged sock filter.....or it all runs out on the ground and you walk to the next gas station.

You can buy inline silt filters.....which are fairly small.....by the bag. They are commonly used in diesel vehicles as pre-filters for the injection pump and are replaced on a fairly regular basis.
Buy them by the dozen and they are about $2 each. Ray

[SGKent]

[Ericlottaallthat]

The red washer (seal) won’t fit on top of the screen without drilling it out.

[raygreenwood]

[jtauxe]

We get that, Ray, but I think that SGK's point was that with the sock, the hole itself does not get blocked by a piece of something in the tank. With the screen outside the tank, it can still get blocked. Not by silt but by something larger. Like a flake of paint or rubber.
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[skills@eurocarsplus]

I have put them on in this order:

screen> tube>fiber washer>tube nut

the aluminum ring in the screen is the main seal. in fact, I have run them without the fiber washers and have never had a leak. the squeeze on the aluminum crush ring is what does all of the sealing
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[busdaddy]

Although I too use the aluminum strainer collar as a seal (bottom of #5) it seems the parts fiche shows a washer of some kind between it and the tank (#6), may be aluminum, may be fiber. I'll bet the one between the nipple's flange and the nut (#8 ) is steel though, makes for good slip as you torque and there's no need for a seal there.

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[raygreenwood]

[busdaddy]

Well VW deleted the screen around the time they were prepping for FI (mid 73), the screen is only used in early carb equipped vehicles. When they were new that screen and the one in the fuel pump were the only filters they left the factory with, no inline stuff anywhere.

I have been known to puncture the screen before installing it, that way no amount of fine sludge can block it, yet any large debris will still be kept away from the tip of the outlet pipe, of course I use an inline filter under the tank above the transmission in all situations.
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[wcfvw69]

IDK Ray, I'm usually aligned with your thinking. However, I think the sock is prudent in the tank as a first line of defense. Then an inline, fine fuel filter between the tank and the fuel pump that's not in the engine compartment.

Here's my rational- If dirt and debris land on the side of the sock in the tank, it won't plug the outlet unless the tanks almost empty. You still have 3/4" of the sock that is clear and will allow the fuel through to exit the tank.

I don't know. Clearly the engineers who are smarter than I thought there was value to having them in the tank or VW would of saved the money and not installed them.
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[Wildthings]

Not only can you trash the screen you can cut the pipe off short so that the tank can not hold much water thus reducing the chance of getting much rust. You can cut the pipe to a V shape to keep a floating piece of plastic from clogging it.

If you store your fuel for months at a time in Jerry cans that sit out in the rain you might not want to do this, but otherwise you will probably have fewer problems with the tank and actually increase your range a dozen miles or so.

[jtauxe]

I have thought about this from a fluid dynamics perspective, Ray. And the sock makes sense, not just because VW put it there.

The silt filter outside the tank ALSO makes sense. Each has a different role.

The sock should not block silt, it should just block flakes from blocking the hole. If there is a flake on one side of the sock, it does not block the flow, as was pointed out by wcfvw69.

If someone has enough junk in their tank to clog a sock, they have much bigger problems!
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1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[raygreenwood]

[raygreenwood]

[SGKent]

Ray - it is Ok to have a different opinion. No one is keeping score. Lots of cars have socks. It lets the fuel outlet not get clogged in one fell swoop. VW also designed it so it was easy to replace. No need for special doors, access flaps, etc.. Yes, these are indeed 40 to 50 year old cars. If you want to take the sock off your VWs please do so but don't expect everyone to agree with you on this one. A good friend of mine used to judge the condition of the inside of his chevy tank by how well the sock in the tank was flowing. He said that if the engine started to starve when there were still 3 or 4 gallons in the tank then he knew it was time to drop the tank. Gas stations today have better filtration than they did 50 years ago but still sometimes dirt and things get into those tanks. Remind me to tell the story sometime of a fellow I know whose Cessna tank was almost 75% full of water due to a contaminated underground tank.
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).

George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."

Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"

[Oil Phil-M]

Im currently suffering from a slow leak around the tank outlet in my 72 Westy. This was the best thread I could find so adding to it rather than starting another.

Background; drivetrain was already out due to a transaxle issue. Decided to fix the broken fuel sender unit and install an access port for any future problems. Reinstalled tank with new filler tube. Poured in about 5 gallons of fuel, checked fill tube - no leaks. Firewall and gas heater reinstalled, drivetrain lifted into place then I notice there is a slow leak coming from the outlet of the gas tank. I should also note that years ago I installed a shut of valve on the line coming out from the tank before a filter and then electric pump - note: best thing ever!!!

Drained tanks, unscrewed the outlet spigot and everything is metal to metal. Found a black washer in the hardware bucket that appears I forgot to install. Placed it between the bottom of the sock filter (yes I'm intending to keep it) and the tank side spigot disk. I see from busdaddy's post that appears to be the wrong site but its where it has been for the past ??? years and no issues. Fuel back in the tank and leak seems even worse. Online problem searching lead me to these fiber washer outlet seals 111-209-139. They seem to be great for going over the filter sock (as #6 in diagram) but look like they aren't sized right for any where else. Plus by the time both washers are in place, there isn't that much thread holding things together.

Here's where it gets weird for me. With the outlet spigot in place, I can see fuel getting absorbed by the oil based undercoating that is present on the underside of the fuel tank as well as running down the outside of the large alloy nut that holds the spigot in place. Tank drained again, spigot and sock screen off I put a dowel in the outlet hole, fuel in the tank and couldnt see any issues. I will say the next step turned into a bit of a blessing as when I pulled the dowel and let the tank fast drain into a large bucket the full opening and no screen allowed a bunch of crap and debris to flow out of the tank. Something to think about doing.

Reinstalled the sock filter then one of those fiber washers followed by the spigot with a golf tee jammed in it and the leak had slowed down but was still there. Despite the top of the spigot nut being a few mm away from the bottom of the tank, the undercoating on the tank was again getting wet and there was the slightest amount of fuel on the upper part of the spigot tube.

Two theories:
1) Somehow the threaded tank outlet got stressed with the tank going in and out and is now leaking. However doesn't explain why the tank did not appear to be leaking when the outlet was blocked by a dowel.
2) The seal between the tank and the spigot is not functioning properly and fuel is being forced up the treads of the tank outlet to the top of the nut where simultaneously some of the fuel overflows downwards while some continues to cling to the threaded outlet even past the end of the nut and is drive upwards to the bottom of the tank where it is then absorbed by the undercoating. This theory seems to defy gravity and may just be a result of inhaling too much gas fumes.

I've decided to pull the tank tomorrow so I can have a closer look and then proceed to bench test it with larger volumes of fluid but thought I would put this question out there to see if anyone has any comments. I see there is a replacement tank available and the pics show a spigot with two flat washers which I'm assuming go on either side of the spigot disc. Also comes with a later style fuel sending unit which I don't if that mean a new fuel gauge with be required also.

[/quote]

[busdaddy]

It's possible it's cracking or has a tiny pinhole somewhere around where the outlet attaches to the tank, but why didn't it leak when plugged?

Switching to AN would be one way to eliminate that janky stack of ill fitting parts: https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3288.htm

From this thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=549303
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