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Passed Smog, happy
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whynotvw
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Passed Smog, happy Reply with quote

I did suby 2.2 conversion last year and I was stressed thinking about getting it smogged here in Ca. I didn't have a bar sticker and I wanted to avoid seeing a smog referee. Well it passed with no problem very happy. Very Happy
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RCB
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B4 Pray After Dancing Thats kinda how I feel while at the smoggers. Congratulations. Did they do a fuel tank pressure test?
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Jon_slider
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations!

mums the word, it could have been a 2.5 at that rate


Last edited by Jon_slider on Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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whynotvw
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RCB wrote:
B4 Pray After Dancing Thats kinda how I feel while at the smoggers. Congratulations. Did they do a fuel tank pressure test?


i think they did but i'm not sure. i just played stupid and i acted like i was mechanically ignorant. Smile
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Williamtaylor33
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're the only ones that really know these vanagons. I have wondered how often these referees would know if a vanagon wasnt 'stock' if you didnt tell them.
Of course all my vanagons are registered in arkansas where anything goes...
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Williamtaylor33 wrote:
We're the only ones that really know these vanagons. I have wondered how often these referees would know if a vanagon wasnt 'stock' if you didnt tell them.
Of course all my vanagons are registered in arkansas where anything goes...

You mean.. a "smog technician"?

I don't know how familiar you are with CA smogging rules... but a "referee" will definitely know which engine you have in there. And if they don't recognize it they will ask specifically.

The "Referee" is employed by the Bureau of Automotive Repair, (BAR).
They are not the same guys we visit every 2 yrs for smog checks.
Those would be "Smog technicians" and smog techs are independent contractors. And while their work may be are overseen by regional BAR, the smog rules they are working with are enforced by California Air Resources Board, (CARB).

The "referee" is tasked beyond a simple smog test.. They inspect modified vehicles for compliance if/when the smog tech decides that the vehicle does not comply with the basic smog rules, (i.e. visual inspection).



If you meant "smog technician", and not "referee", in your post.., then yes... They may not know (or care about) the difference between a WBXer 2.1 and a Subaru 2.2, or for that matter a Subaru 2.5. Or they might not care.
But any lunkhead will recognize that a 6 cylinder or an inline engine is not stock.. and then its off to the ref you go.

That said, a smog tech risks losing his station's license (and that income) if he is caught certifying a vehicle with faulty input data.. Fewer and fewer of these guys are willing to do that.


Looks like WhynotVW may have dodged a bullet this round. Good for him.
But that by no means gaurauntees that next time the tech won't follow the rules better.

If Whynotvw had either the bar code issued by the BAR ref.. OR the EO documentation provided by Kennedy for thier Subie 2.2 kit, then he will likley be fine in 2 yrs so long as the vehicle puts out good numbers.
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danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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Jon_slider
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 2.2 Subaru in a Vanagon Syncro in Santa Cruz. I have smogged it without a bar code, and I also now have a bar code.. Ive been on both tracks personally

> If Whynotvw had either the bar code issued by the BAR ref..

I agree, the bar code is gospel, a smog shop just scans it and it gives them all the Vin info, make model, etc. for the smog certificate. This works at ANY and ALL smog shops.

> OR the EO documentation provided by Kennedy for thier Subie 2.2 kit, then he will likley be fine in 2 yrs so long as the vehicle puts out good numbers.

respectfully disagree
of the 4 the smog shops I told I had a Kennedy conversion, 3 told me they would not work with me, despite the executive order.. they basically were scared, said they could get a 10 thousand dollar fine, went hysterical

the 4th shop, that did smog me, and I fully disclosed my conversion, and presented the Kennedy Executive order, told me that if I had NOT told them it was a Subaru, they never would have known.

It left me with the impression that an 18 - 20 year old smog tech has no idea what an original VW motor should look like.. they just smog it... their motivation is to earn the fee. they are not interested in verifying if the Cat is compliant with the Executive Order, or whether any of the other Kennedy parts were used for the conversion..

However, once you find a smog shop that is willing to either ignore what kind of motor you have, or respect the Kennedy Executive order, if you are compliant, then you go back to that same place every 2 years.. Problem solved.

If you need to smog a subaru conversion, and you dont have a Bar Code from a Referee, and need the name of a conversion friendly smog shop in Santa Cruz, that respects the Executive Order, message me.

I tried to get a Bar Code from a Referee a year ago, and was told they had a new policy NOT to issue bar codes to Kennedy compliant conversions. I was told to go to any smog shop, and show the Executive Order..

That did not work out very well.

2 Weeks ago I went back to a Referee to get a Bar Code, cause I was wanting to avoid shopping for Executive Order respecting Smog shops. The Referee told me they are now issuing Bar Codes for Kennedy conversions again, because they got so much consumer feedback of the lack of willingness of smog shops to deal with the Executive Order verification details.

If you want the name of a Referee station that has a Subaru conversion knowledgeable (friendly) referee, Use Santa Barbara City College on a Thursday, the Referee is Herve.

If you want the name of a Referee station that has a hostile Referee, who will try everything he can to turn you away, use Evergreen College near San Jose, and see Terrence.

here is my writeup of that story, Terrence Did finally give me a bar code. I do have a Kennedy compliant conversion, including the CAT.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4714358#4714358
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Volksaholic
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats!!! Glad it passed... I'm sure that was nerve wracking after doing all that work.

I was a little worried about my 2.5 here in Utah... one shop told me that technically I'm supposed to get the conversion signed off by the health dept. I played dumb, let the techs pull it in while I got on the Web and started surfing. One tech whipped open the door all excited and said "That's a Subaru engine!!!" He was pretty excited about it, then asked me the displacement for the smog machine... no hassle, passed well below the limits.

Paul
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j_dirge
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon_slider wrote:

> OR the EO documentation provided by Kennedy for thier Subie 2.2 kit, then he will likley be fine in 2 yrs so long as the vehicle puts out good numbers.

respectfully disagree
of the 4 the smog shops I told I had a Kennedy conversion, 3 told me they would not work with me, despite the executive order.. they basically were scared, said they could get a 10 thousand dollar fine, went hysterical

the 4th shop, that did smog me, and I fully disclosed my conversion, and presented the Kennedy Executive order, told me that if I had NOT told them it was a Subaru, they never would have known.

It left me with the impression that an 18 - 20 year old smog tech has no idea what an original VW motor should look like.. they just smog it... their motivation is to earn the fee. they are not interested in verifying if the Cat is compliant with the Executive Order, or whether any of the other Kennedy parts were used for the conversion..

However, once you find a smog shop that is willing to either ignore what kind of motor you have, or respect the Kennedy Executive order, if you are compliant, then you go back to that same place every 2 years.. Problem solved.

Jon, with all dues respect, your posts here at Samba have been about technical accuracy.
I am posting about the process.. and the letter of the rule.

Please read page 9, last paragraph..of the pfd, "Smog Check Inspection Procedures Manual"
linked here:

http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/02_SmogCheck/Industry/Smog_Check_Guide.html
"To verify CARB approval, technicians must.."

Kennedy provides a sticker that has the EO number on it. It is the smog techs job to verify that number and CARB provides a number for the tech to call if they need further information.


I have NEVER said that this is an easy process or that all smog techs get it right.. Sadly, they do not.
But it might help prospective Vangon engine swaps to know how the rules are SUPPOSED to work, such that they do not have to jump through the hoops you did.
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danfromsyr wrote:
those are straight line runs with light weight race cars for only 1/4mile at a time..
not pushing a loaded brick up a mountain pass with a family of 4+ inside expecting to have an event free vacation..
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RCB
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi j_dirge...in your second to last sentence, didn't you mean to say.."GLADLY ,they do not" Laughing
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Jon_slider
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

> Kennedy provides a sticker that has the EO number on it.

I have that plaque too, it also lists the Check Engine Light error codes that are allowed.

None of the smog technicians care about that plaque, and they dont really like being asked to look up the Executive order online.. They do appreciate being handed the printed out copy of the EO that I carry. they copy it for their files, to cover their *ss I guess

> It is the smog techs job to verify that number and CARB provides a number for the tech to call if they need further information.

yes, I agree completely on what the smog techs job is supposed to be

I also agree with your descriptions of how the rules are supposed to work..

in the real world, smog techs dont look up executive orders, in fact, even referees will use my copy of the EO happily.. looking it up based on the plaque never even crosses their mind..

so we have 3 items

1. the kennedy plaque, that every smog tech ignores

2. the kennedy executive order, which no tech wants to look up

3. the bar code from a referee, which makes #1 and #2 no longer needed at a smog shop...

moral of the story, the kennedy plaque is the least useful bit, the bar code sticker is the best, and educating smog shops about executive orders is a losing battle, which is why CARB is again issuing bar codes for Kennedy Conversions...

never again
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fxr
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Passed Smog, happy Reply with quote

To add to this old topic:

We had Buslab install a Kennedy kit nearly two years ago, and now it was time to get it smogged.

Yesterday I took it straight to the referree in Vallejo, I didn't even bother to ask any local smog shop. An hour and $8.25 later the van had a nice new BAR barcode sticker.

Apart from the fact any smog shop should now test it without quibble, it was far cheaper (smog is usually around $80 - 'old vehicle') and less hassle.

Yes, happy. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Passed Smog, happy Reply with quote

fxr wrote:
To add to this old topic:

We had Buslab install a Kennedy kit nearly two years ago, and now it was time to get it smogged.

Yesterday I took it straight to the referree in Vallejo, I didn't even bother to ask any local smog shop. An hour and $8.25 later the van had a nice new BAR barcode sticker.

Apart from the fact any smog shop should now test it without quibble, it was far cheaper (smog is usually around $80 - 'old vehicle') and less hassle.

Yes, happy. Smile


I too am happy for you, but am somewhat surprised. I have heard that BAR refs were not providing conversion barcode stickers recently, when the conversion is covered by an existing Executive Order (i.e. Kennedy Executive Order).

Congratulations!
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Passed Smog, happy Reply with quote

Apparently there was a meeting in April to discuss this issue. Yes smog shops should test vehicles with an EO, but it's recognised that very few will for a variety of reasons. OK, there's laziness (it's far more trouble) but also the fear that if they miss something in the long list of stuff to be checked for conformity to the EO then they'll be subject to fines or sanctions. No decision was reached I''m told, so as long as you claim you couldn't find a shop willing to do it the referee should test the vehicle and issue a barcode sticker.

I phoned for an appointment and when asked why I needed a referee check I just said 'Engine change'. I gave no other details until I was at the appointment.

When going this route it's essential to have all documentation regarding the installation. Mine was swapped at Buslab - I just showed their multi-paged work order. Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Passed Smog, happy Reply with quote

Fuking CA and the SMOG money grab game. I am glad I do not have to smog my VW now since it was such a pain in the rear in the past. You pay through the nose to have every bit of smog equip on the engine to pass visual even if the parts no longer work and the tech doing the smog has no clue what he is looking at in the first place.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Passed Smog, happy Reply with quote

fxr wrote:
To add to this old topic:

We had Buslab install a Kennedy kit nearly two years ago, and now it was time to get it smogged.

Yesterday I took it straight to the referree in Vallejo, I didn't even bother to ask any local smog shop. An hour and $8.25 later the van had a nice new BAR barcode sticker.

Apart from the fact any smog shop should now test it without quibble, it was far cheaper (smog is usually around $80 - 'old vehicle') and less hassle.

Yes, happy. Smile


Very helpful! Thank you. I'm headed out to Vallejo soon. Fingers crossed.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: Passed Smog, happy Reply with quote

Thanks for not killing people in CA with pollution

Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:09 am    Post subject: Re: Passed Smog, happy Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Thanks for not killing people in CA with pollution

Very Happy


We prefer to kill them with kindness and with freebees. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Passed Smog, happy Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Thanks for not killing people in CA with pollution

Very Happy


My van runs cleaner than any wbx powered one.

My EO is in the glove box.

It just passed smog for the 5th time...

No big deal.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Passed Smog, happy Reply with quote

Same here.
1.8t reversed Andrew Flint creation.
Here in Vegas if the vehicle is over 25 years then it's Classic Plates time, and no smog.

BUT, about a week ago I went down to re-tag and I wrote down the wrong number from the odometer. Embarassed

She said I had more miles than this last year, (simple error on my part. I offered to go outside with someone to confirm the odometer, but No! So I'm DQd from the classic plates, have to go regular and that meant smog.

Easy Peasy.
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