Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Hole cut in tunnel
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
scrivyscriv Premium Member
Samba Electrician


Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2460
Location: Memphis
scrivyscriv is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

I found this little gift...


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


on my recently-bought 1967 sunroof beetle


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


and my question is, before I weld the tunnel back up, is there anything in there I should do or fix? The shifter is hotdog in a hallway so it will get a replacement bronze bushing, and I have to run a new steel fuel line. Other than that - ?

Thanks in advance for the advice and opinions y'all.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
AZOffTheWall
Samba Member


Joined: December 27, 2012
Posts: 209
Location: Arizona
AZOffTheWall is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:23 am    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

That hole is there because the shift rod bushing bracket broke and needed to be replaced, it's pretty common, usually guys do a little cleaner work but I've seen much worse. Replace the bushing before you weld it up.
_________________
My Build: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=665399&highlight=
Continued:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=676470&highlight=
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12179

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Check the welds on clutch cable guide tube all three places. Last one is under rear seat. You and I know never to make right angle cut as it makes stress riser. Me? Iíd radius the angles and instead of welding use original piece then a thin over lay and fasten the hole thing down using floating nut plates. Duplicate access panel on airplane. Unless you are planning very vigorous driving that example of hacking shouldnít be a problem. Covered with carpet itís out of sight.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KTPhil Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 31701
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
KTPhil is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

There was a thread with photos (but I can't find it now) about a Bug with a not-as-bad hole cut in the tunnel. When the owner took a RR crossing at too high a speed, it bent the chassis severely. I'd take time to do this right as described above!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
stale air
Samba Member


Joined: August 23, 2007
Posts: 4780
Location: Senoia, Ga
stale air is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:18 am    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Exactly what was stated above..

Btw, I dig the dealer badge on the rear deck lid.
_________________
WANTED: Henry Veale Santa Rosa plate frames
WANTED: Brittsan Motors Fresno plate frames
WANTED: Any Georgia plate frames
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
flyboy161
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2089
Location: Perry, GA
flyboy161 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

I would cut it as stated above, radius the corners. And then make a doubler to put inside the tunnel, about 3/4Ē bigger than the hole and 3/4Ē smaller than the hole on the inside cutout of the doubler. Basically a ring of material around the hole on the inside. This gives you a lip to flush mount a panel to the doubler and strengthens the repair for worry free driving. The doubler is riveted to the tunnel and you could use nutzerts in the doubler to fasten the panel. Rivets placed about every inch should be sufficient to secure the doubler.

I would also consider welding some of the upper cut are back in place to get it off the bend in the upper tunnel.
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli


Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12103
Location: North Carolina
TDCTDI is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Rivets on the doubler?!?

Screw that! Any hole that large is going to compromise the structural integrity of the backbone of the car that's already known to be a death trap. Finish cutting out the panel, straighten the bent part causing it not to seat flush & weld it back in place.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12179

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

flyboy161 wrote:
I would cut it as stated above, radius the corners. And then make a doubler to put inside the tunnel, about 3/4Ē bigger than the hole and 3/4Ē smaller than the hole on the inside cutout of the doubler. Basically a ring of material around the hole on the inside. This gives you a lip to flush mount a panel to the doubler and strengthens the repair for worry free driving. The doubler is riveted to the tunnel and you could use nutzerts in the doubler to fasten the panel. Rivets placed about every inch should be sufficient to secure the doubler.

I would also consider welding some of the upper cut are back in place to get it off the bend in the upper tunnel.


I know exactly what you are describing. This was a type of standard repair straight out of Boeing structure repair manual better know as the SRM. We called this dollar and a dime patch, and yes it had rivets through a patch doubler and was beefed up around the perimeter. The nice part is itís a flush repair which isnít as noticeable. About 30 years ago I did nothing but structure repair and believe me we have tools materials and knowledge to fix this stuff😀

It goes without saying be careful you got a fuel line close by hereís what Iíd use to radius a right angle cut
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli


Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12103
Location: North Carolina
TDCTDI is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
flyboy161 wrote:
I would cut it as stated above, radius the corners. And then make a doubler to put inside the tunnel, about 3/4Ē bigger than the hole and 3/4Ē smaller than the hole on the inside cutout of the doubler. Basically a ring of material around the hole on the inside. This gives you a lip to flush mount a panel to the doubler and strengthens the repair for worry free driving. The doubler is riveted to the tunnel and you could use nutzerts in the doubler to fasten the panel. Rivets placed about every inch should be sufficient to secure the doubler.

I would also consider welding some of the upper cut are back in place to get it off the bend in the upper tunnel.


I know exactly what you are describing. This was a type of standard repair straight out of Boeing structure repair manual better know as the SRM. We called this dollar and a dime patch, and yes it had rivets through a patch doubler and was beefed up around the perimeter. The nice part is itís a flush repair which isnít as noticeable. About 30 years ago I did nothing but structure repair and believe me we have tools materials and knowledge to fix this stuff😀

It goes without saying be careful you got a fuel line close by hereís what Iíd use to radius a right angle cut
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I sincerely doubt that any component on an aircraft that had 1/3 of it's structure hacked out of it would be allowed to be put back into service with just a doubler & rivets. Not to mention that they're not just dealing with sharp corner stress risers, this particular case has cut stress risers beyond the cut out panel.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12179

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Youíd be real surprised with the amount of damage that gets repaired and returned to service. If itís not covered with a standard repair it goes to engineering for an approved fix. Very little gets wasted, problems are solved and it puts bread on the table.

Once a 727 wingtip cut a gash 15 feet long into fuselage of MD80. The mad dog was less than a year old. At first it appeared to be impossible to repair. It was shored up and all three angles shot in with laser, reskinned and stringers spliced. Entire frames replaced and 3 months later returned to service. Cost millions but it got done. See em land wheels up, fixed that. Landed short hitting trees, fixed that. Where thereís a will thereís a way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli


Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12103
Location: North Carolina
TDCTDI is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
Youíd be real surprised with the amount of damage that gets repaired and returned to service. If itís not covered with a standard repair it goes to engineering for an approved fix. Very little gets wasted, problems are solved and it puts bread on the table.

Once a 727 wingtip cut a gash 15 feet long into fuselage of MD80. The mad dog was less than a year old. At first it appeared to be impossible to repair. It was shored up and all three angles shot in with laser, reskinned and stringers spliced. Entire frames replaced and 3 months later returned to service. Cost millions but it got done. See em land wheels up, fixed that. Landed short hitting trees, fixed that. Where thereís a will thereís a way.



I realize that lots of stuff gets repaired but none of your examples are the same type of thing that we're discussing here. Show me one example of a structural component that had 1/3 of it's cross section cut, broken, damaged, fatigued or what not, repaired by a doubler & rivets.

I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't sign your name on something like what you're suggesting the OP do on his car.
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
scrivyscriv Premium Member
Samba Electrician


Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2460
Location: Memphis
scrivyscriv is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

I guess my fabrication skills are going to be under the microscope now!! Laughing

Looking at the damage I donít really want to just weld it in as is, so Iím looking locally for a donor section. An access panel there would be nice down the road (maybe for the next guy?). I dunno, Iím more of a mechanic than a metalwork and body guy so I hope nobody is getting their hopes up for a fancy repair! Very Happy
_________________
Robert in Memphis
1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
flyboy161
Samba Member


Joined: December 26, 2009
Posts: 2089
Location: Perry, GA
flyboy161 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

TDCTDI wrote:
Zundfolge1432 wrote:
Youíd be real surprised with the amount of damage that gets repaired and returned to service. If itís not covered with a standard repair it goes to engineering for an approved fix. Very little gets wasted, problems are solved and it puts bread on the table.

Once a 727 wingtip cut a gash 15 feet long into fuselage of MD80. The mad dog was less than a year old. At first it appeared to be impossible to repair. It was shored up and all three angles shot in with laser, reskinned and stringers spliced. Entire frames replaced and 3 months later returned to service. Cost millions but it got done. See em land wheels up, fixed that. Landed short hitting trees, fixed that. Where thereís a will thereís a way.



I realize that lots of stuff gets repaired but none of your examples are the same type of thing that we're discussing here. Show me one example of a structural component that had 1/3 of it's cross section cut, broken, damaged, fatigued or what not, repaired by a doubler & rivets.

I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't sign your name on something like what you're suggesting the OP do on his car.


Actually, I would. Iíve been doing aircraft crash recovery and repair for the last 30 years. What I described is standard repair at depot level. If it was a field repair Iíd do a scab patch. But I was describing a permanent repair. The owner has a great deal of aircraft experience also. Clearly Zundfolge4321 does too. Your concerns are valid, but done right, this repair would be just as strong as welding. And you are able to access the area in the future.
_________________
My father's 1970 Beetle-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603879

The 1964...Diamond in the rough
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612776

My 1958 Morocco Bug-
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611483
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
hitest
Samba Member


Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10232
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
hitest is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Let's face it. The person who cut that trapezoid hole either has gorilla hands or tourettes when his cutting disc is spinning.

I'd take that patch, cut a clean oval IN in to serve as a new service port. Then I'd weld the hell out of that patch back in its jagged hole. Think hole in a hole. I'll bet everyone here at some time has had to retro house wiring through nothing more than a single-gang trim ring. Same theory here.

I'm confident integrity would be restored while still providing access in the future. The new, smaller hole could still be installed with the before mentioned speed hardware of your choosing.
_________________
EverettB wrote:

I wonder what the nut looks like.



'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181

FU#5
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Scott65Beetle
Samba Member


Joined: March 08, 2009
Posts: 227
Location: Indpls
Scott65Beetle is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

thats an easy fix. I swear most PO of VWs must have been hacks. Ive seen crap like this so many times. How come they never respected their vehicles the way Porsche owners did? I know I know cheap little disposable cars,blah blah blah
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: June 13, 2004
Posts: 12179

Zundfolge1432 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

You answered your own question and when I was 18 years old with my first VW a Marina blue deluxe bug I simply beat the car to death. Imagine a time when these things were so common you could buy a running car for 100 bucks or maybe less Very Happy if you looked hard enough and asked around they were free, people just wanted them out of their yard because of minor problem. It needs a clutch get rid of it. Early 70s when gas was real cheap v8s ruled and the demographic of VW owners then were kids, poor people, cheap eccentrics and folks that took pride in fixing their cars sometimes hacking. Very Happy the demographic hasnít changed much but price has gone up except the poor are priced out.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli


Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12103
Location: North Carolina
TDCTDI is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
You answered your own question and when I was 18 years old with my first VW a Marina blue deluxe bug I simply beat the car to death. Imagine a time when these things were so common you could buy a running car for 100 bucks or maybe less Very Happy if you looked hard enough and asked around they were free, people just wanted them out of their yard because of minor problem. It needs a clutch get rid of it. Early 70s when gas was real cheap v8s ruled and the demographic of VW owners then were kids, poor people, cheap eccentrics and folks that took pride in fixing their cars sometimes hacking. Very Happy the demographic hasnít changed much but price has gone up except the poor are priced out.


Automotive gentrification. Razz
_________________
Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.


GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!


An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.


Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
scrivyscriv Premium Member
Samba Electrician


Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2460
Location: Memphis
scrivyscriv is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Guys I am absolutely STOKED about this car. This is the most original numbers-matching VW Iíve ever owned!! Even the engine serial falls in range with the VIN production date and looks OG!
Check out that pulley tin nobody ever kept! The carburetor looks like it might be OG stock too.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Robert in Memphis
1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
slalombuggy
Samba Member


Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 8761
Location: At work
slalombuggy is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Thinking that a hole like that is going to cause impending failure overlooks the fast that you have a large steel box bolted to the pan which has a lot of strength on it also. As long as it has heater channels and a roof that are sound then a catastrophic failure is unlikely.

Is is a good fix?..no its not. But obviously the pan hasn't failed in the amount of time its taken to wear out another shifter bushing.

Personally I'd pull it back, replace the bushing and weld it up. I wouldn't dream of using that hacked hole as a permanent maintenance point. The hole is far too large and in the wrong place, the cut at the top rear also goes up into the radius iof the structure which is where the strength is greatest . If you want to put another access hole in it use a hole saw beside the bushing and stay down as low as you can from the rounded top of the tunnel but still gain access to the bushing. Weld it up and start over with a proper size and located hole.

brad
_________________
Lucky Monkey Landspeed Racing
I'd rather lose by a mile with something I built, than win by inches driving someone else's work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 73839
Location: Sneaking up behind you
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Hole cut in tunnel Reply with quote

Looks like it was made with a hatchet.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Member #1009
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Beetle - 1958-1967 All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB