intermittent starter problem

[Ghreta]

Occasionally, for no apparent reason, I turn the key on my 71 vert and nothing happens. The gauges come on, so the battery connection is fine, but the starter doesn't crank or anything. Sometimes if I do nothing and just let it sit I'll try again later and it starts right up. Other times I'll push start the car and usually after driving awhile I can turn it off and it restarts fine. I can't find any obviously loose/broken wires, though I admit I don't really know what I'm looking for. The problem has occurred when the engine is cold and also when it's warm. I have noticed that a few times when this happened the car had been parked on an incline facing uphill. Any reason that would be a factor?

[SkrapMetal]

Are you sure your terminals are clean? Not just on your battery, but at the starter and selenoid connections too. Sounds like a selenoid going bad...
_________________
oo9less since 2007
-72 Ghia-

[70 140]

perhaps the starter bushing.

[stuvw2mny]

I am having same problem on a 71 coupe, standard transmission. So far I have been able to disconnect the wire at the starter solenoid (underneath car on starter at passenger side). and connect a jumper wire to it. Touching the jumper wire to the battery positive terminal makes the starter spin, so that somewhat says the starter and solenoid are ok. It is possible there might still be an intermittant problem in the solenoid/starter. It is also possible your wire or solenoid terminals might be corroded and cleaning or scraping them, or checking the wire terminal for looseness might cure your problem.

Since weather is bad enough that I do not want to work on the car until it clears, my next step was to review the wiring diagrams - I found the Haynes diagram (chapter12) to be sharper and easier to read than the diagram in the Bentley manual. Both diagrams show that there are two connectors between the solenoid and terminal 50 on the ignition switch. I do not know where these connectors are located. I suspect one is under the rear seat and one is in the front of the dash (accessed thru the front hood). Further, I do not yet know how to get to terminal 50 of the ignition switch.

Remembering that the wires/connectors are 37 years old it is possible that the connector terminals are corroded and taking them apart and cleaning them will solve the problem. At least that is my hope. When I find the rear connector I will also try applying 12 volts to the starter wiring at that point as an intermediate troubleshooting step - in other words I am working backwards from the starter solenoid, which my first step proves is working.

If the 2 connector wires/terminals check out, that leaves the ignition switch and the wire soldered(?) to terminal 50 thereof as suspect. Since I think that is a job possibly requiring removal of the ignition switch wiring (I don't exactly know, can someone else help on this?). My thought is that if voltage applied to the connector in front of the dash causes the starter to work I may install a pushbutton switch between this point and a source of 12 volts - say from the fuse block. This could be either a temporary fix or permanent.

It is also possible there might be an intermittent connection problem with the ground straps. There is one between the body and the front of the transmission case, and the wiring diagram says there is another between the steering column and the body. Also check the connection between the battery negative terminal and the body. Poor ground connections are especially troublesome in the case of the high current draws of the starter. Remembering 37 years, perhaps disconnect and clean all of them?

If you have an automatic trans, your wiring might be different. Let us know your results. Good luck.

BTW, for wiring neophytes I found an excellent introductory VW electrical tutorial in pages 6-1 thru 6-8 of Chilton's Volkswagen Air-Cooled 1970-1981 Repair Manual, Manual #70202. It's one of the best, easy-to-read, basic automotive electrical write-ups I have ever seen. Sorry this got a little long, but trying to be thorough.

[sputnick60]

I had this same problem in my '62 Ghia. It turns out the key-switch had worn out in the "start" position, showing all the intermittent behaviour described. I got another switch in there and all's been well ever since.

Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[74 AUTOSTICK]

I had similar problems with the 74. Drove me crazy. Ended up being the relay connection. I had removed and replaced all of them a number of times with spares I had. Well one of the terminials (on the bottom side) where the relays plug in, had actually pushed through the bottom, so the spade on the relay wasn't making contact. Pull the relay block and push all the wires back into the block. Worth a try.
Good luck
Rodger

[thom]

Sounds like the starter bushing is past it's prime, and is taking the starter with it.
_________________
-Thom
1956 Single Cab
1957 Porsche 356A Sunroof
1957 23-Window Deluxe
1957 Mercedes Westfalia single cab
1963 Unimog 404
1965 E-Type

[snookerdude]

my vote is for the switch/key diagnosis. for vice president: bad relay[ if it has one. none of the 6 ghias i have owned had one but i had none younger than a 70.] but my vote has not always been cast to the winning candidate. ain't it fun?

[_benjammin]

[74Pepper]

Also, check the wire connection to the starter under the car. The wire that comes from the engine bay to the starter. You have to get under the car to see it. What you've described can happen if this connection is not secure.

[Ghreta]

So many great suggestions. It'll be a little while until I can spend time trying the various options...but I'll be sure and keep you posted on what works.

[Ghreta]

Finally got the time and money to work on the problem. First I had the ignition replaced. Three days later the car did the 'no-start' thing again. So my Ghia guys installed a hot-start relay...which as I understand it eliminates much of the distance the current from the ignition has to travel before reaching the starter. I guess this can drain the voltage enough that there's sometimes insufficient power to trigger the starter. Anyway, it's been a week and so far so good.

[bruehoyt]

I am having similar issues. Previous owner install hot start relay to attempt a fix. I replaced battery which was a million years old, not holding charge. Checked that starter turns when terminals jumped. Coil good. Cleaning and tightening connections now. I'm at the auto parts store getting connectors.

[NakMuayD]

[Redlabel6]

I had the exact same issue on my '73. It ended up being a bad starter solenoid.
As NakMuayD points out, a rebuilt starter is cheaper than replacing the solenoid. If you do get one, get the Autostick version, no starter bushing to worry about.
I picked mine up at NAPA for $53.00.
d
_________________
1957 Oval Window Beetle
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=666792&highlight=73+coupe

[jeffrey8164]

I know there are probably internet factors at work here but the lowest I can find is 97.97 on Amazon.
Napa is 102ish with a 38.00 core charge even if I select stores in Texas or Minnesota.

You guys must have a special sauce.
_________________
Volkswagen!
Turning owners into mechanics since 1938.

“Let he that is without oil throw the first rod”
(Compression 8.7:1)

[Redlabel6]

hmmm, here is the link to my local NAPA

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/RSE2444257?partTypeName=Starter&keywordInput=starter

$49.99
$13.20 core charge.

The one I ended up getting was a Bosch.

d
_________________
1957 Oval Window Beetle
1973 Karmann Ghia Coupe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=666792&highlight=73+coupe

[NakMuayD]

[carlk3]

Before you replace the starter, check out the upper mounting bolt. I replaced my starter, and it worked, for a while...

Here is my write-up: Finally solved my starter problems

I am still running the cheap rebuilt starter that I pulled years ago thinking it was bad.

[bhartwell59]

Do have it tested in the store... just to make sure.
_________________
'74 Zambezi green Ghia vert, autostick, 103k
'87 Jeep Wrangler, 4.2, 334k