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Semper_Dad
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 3521
Location: Indiana
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 Posted: Sun May 31, 2020 8:52 pm Post subject: Walkure Down! Phoenix Rising (Rebuild Thread) |
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Had a bit of an engine fire last week. Broke just about every rule except I had moved the fuel filter out of the engine bay several months ago.
End of the day and I was moving the car from in front of my house, around the block and into the garage. Made the first left turn about 100 ft and then the engine began sputtering. Conducted a moving restart and the engine came back,... for a about 50 feet. I saw a bit of black smoke coming from the back of the car in my rear view mirror. Pulled over to the curb and jumped out to check on things. When I opened the deck lid there was a small fire near the carburetor. Dropped the lid and went back up front to grab the extinguisher only to discover it was no longer charged. Called 911 and reported the fire. Response was pretty quick, like 10 minutes or less.
Here are the results. No injuries (at least physically). Insurance adjuster (Hagarty) scheduled to assess tomorrow. Top was down and booted so it burnt up.
Maybe I'm being a bit optimistic but I hope to restore. Blazecut system will be installed along with at least 2 portables.
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Walküre Restoration Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737492
Last edited by Semper_Dad on Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:53 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:30 am Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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Very sorry for you.
All of these engine fire reports lately made me nervous enough to order a BlazeCut yesterday.
Good luck with the repair, Mondshine |
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el_safari
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2005
Posts: 379
Location: Nouvelle Aquitaine,France
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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Very sorry for you 
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La terre n'est qu'un seul pays |
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Semper_Dad
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 3521
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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| mondshine wrote: |
Very sorry for you.
All of these engine fire reports lately made me nervous enough to order a BlazeCut yesterday.
Good luck with the repair, Mondshine |
Great idea. A blazecut is on my repair list as well. I've seen a blazecut install on a 181 and it was installed on top. Wonder whether it would be better to install on the back of the decklid. In my case, that's where it got hottest first.
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Walküre Restoration Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737492 |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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Thing68
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2019
Posts: 71
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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| I think I would also install a fuel cutoff valve. |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 77989
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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| Thing68 wrote: |
| I think I would also install a fuel cutoff valve. |
Where?
He had a mechanical pump that stops when the engine stops.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Thing68
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2019
Posts: 71
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Thing68 wrote: |
| I think I would also install a fuel cutoff valve. |
Where?
He had a mechanical pump that stops when the engine stops. |
Either at the tank or just forward of the engine. The fuel tank is higher then the fuel line so it will continue to drip fuel once the flexible hose burns thru. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 77989
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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| Thing68 wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Thing68 wrote: |
| I think I would also install a fuel cutoff valve. |
Where?
He had a mechanical pump that stops when the engine stops. |
Either at the tank or just forward of the engine. The fuel tank is higher then the fuel line so it will continue to drip fuel once the flexible hose burns thru. |
So during a fire you should reach under the tank and turn a valve?
And by the time the fire burns through the hoses, the vehicle is beyond saving.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Rev. Scott
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2006
Posts: 770
Location: Philo, Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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Ouch. I inspect my extinguishers as often (not enough) as I can. I'm feeling your pain. I don't have full coverage on mine (yet), give an update on how Haggerty responds?
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"I haven't seen one of those since I was shootin' at 'em!" |
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KAmes
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2014
Posts: 893
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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| Man that's terrible. It sure looks repairable though. Maybe it will turn out well in the end. This is where I would be pondering buying a bigger engine than I had or hey, new paint job some such thing. Here's hoping for a positive outcome! We're all going to be buying blazecuts, you're going to save us all. |
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Thing68
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2019
Posts: 71
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Thing68 wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Thing68 wrote: |
| I think I would also install a fuel cutoff valve. |
Where?
He had a mechanical pump that stops when the engine stops. |
Either at the tank or just forward of the engine. The fuel tank is higher then the fuel line so it will continue to drip fuel once the flexible hose burns thru. |
So during a fire you should reach under the tank and turn a valve?
And by the time the fire burns through the hoses, the vehicle is beyond saving. |
Actually you wouldn't have to wait for the hose to burn thru because it most likely came loose and is dumping fuel on the engine. Most engine fires in VW are fuel hose related. The shut off could be a DC activated valve. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 77989
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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| Thing68 wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Thing68 wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Thing68 wrote: |
| I think I would also install a fuel cutoff valve. |
Where?
He had a mechanical pump that stops when the engine stops. |
Either at the tank or just forward of the engine. The fuel tank is higher then the fuel line so it will continue to drip fuel once the flexible hose burns thru. |
So during a fire you should reach under the tank and turn a valve?
And by the time the fire burns through the hoses, the vehicle is beyond saving. |
Actually you wouldn't have to wait for the hose to burn thru because it most likely came loose and is dumping fuel on the engine. Most engine fires in VW are fuel hose related. The shut off could be a DC activated valve. |
So you're saying a switch to activate a valve to close off the fuel flow via gravity?
How about just maintaining the car by replacing the hoses every 5 years and use clamps? I've owned the same VW for 46 years and never needed a electric valve.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Thing68
Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2019
Posts: 71
Location: California
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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| Glenn wrote: |
So you're saying a switch to activate a valve to close off the fuel flow via gravity?
How about just maintaining the car by replacing the hoses every 5 years and use clamps? I've owned the same VW for 46 years and never needed a electric valve. |
Yep. |
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Joe 20
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2005
Posts: 655
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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Any idea what did cause the fire?  |
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Semper_Dad
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 3521
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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| Joe 20 wrote: |
| Any idea what did cause the fire? |
Found the carburetor brass inlet tube sitting beween the air shroud and intake manifold. At this point I assume it separated from the carb, spill some gas, and then caught fire. Suspect ignition source came from electrical contact with cutoff valve or electric choke. Engine hadn't had time to get warm.
The inlet pipe is just peened into the carb. There's a couple of options to prevent the pipe from popping out. 1 is to machine a threaded connection. The other is to safety wire the clame to the carb.
From the gallery
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Walküre Restoration Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737492 |
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Zylinderkopf
Samba Member
Joined: September 09, 2012
Posts: 682
Location: SE Oklahoma
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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Simper—dad... sorry you had this happen...looks like you did get lucky in that the fire didn’t total your Thing. Hope you get a fair settlement from your insurance company!
I haven’t checked my fire extinguisher in ages. On my to do list first thing tomorrow!
Also: please keep us updated!
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1963 Beetle
1966 Beetle 1300
1970 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1971 Super Beetle
1974 Thing
"A lot of people never use their initiative because no one told them to." |
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Semper_Dad
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 3521
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:19 am Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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Still waiting for damage assessment from Hagerty but started cleanup and disassembly.
Removed: Top and frame, rear bumper and tire carrier, carburetor. Vacuumed up the crispy chunks
Going to need a bit more than a rebuild kit
Next on the list is air muff and rear fender removal, then engine drop.
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Walküre Restoration Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737492
Last edited by Semper_Dad on Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mondshine
Samba Member
Joined: October 27, 2006
Posts: 2793
Location: The World's Motor Capital
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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Semper-
There are a couple of details in that gallery photo that give me the creeps.
The worm drive hose clamp is the worst choice for a hose clamp.
The "safety wire rig" does absolutely nothing to guarantee a seal between the brass tube and the carburetor top.
Those "Home Depot" red/blue/yellow crimp terminals are a dead giveaway of a half assed job.
The best option for the carburetor fuel inlet is a 1/16 NPT x 1/4" hose barb fitting. The carburetor inlet is very soft material, and is easily threaded for 1/16 NPT with no drilling. The fittings and tap are available from Amazon, among other places.
Use open barrel crimp terminals for your electrical connections like VW did.
They can be insulated with heat shrink tubing, or better yet, with purpose made insulators.
Best of luck with your project, Mondshine |
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Semper_Dad
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 3521
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Thing Engine Fire, Walkure Down! |
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Fully agree on all points. Consider the wiring option simply a bandaid fix. Correct permanent fix is a threaded fitting.
I use the crimp on hose clamps whenever possible.
Yes again for the electrical. Open barrel connectors with additional shrink tube insulation is the way to go. I'm glad I have a proper pair of crimpers with the amount of electrical work I'm going to have to do.
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Walküre Restoration Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=737492
Last edited by Semper_Dad on Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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