Small Car oil pan puncture ~ Solved / Follow-up

[mrshrimp]

Hi guys- put about a silver dollar size whole in my small car oil pan for a 2007 forester 2.5 conversion. They don’t have any more on hand. One used one that’s been welded, is an option. Just have to ask: anyone in the northwest have on hand to sell? Can a stock pan be used short term with this conversion kit?

We are 400 miles from home in Vale Oregon, not far from Ontario or Boise Idaho. We were able to patch the whole with careful preparation, a piece of tin and jb weld that just held up 55 miles on a high clearance dirt road. Can’t belive we made it honestly. No leaking but can trust it. And luckily the one camp that was out in the area had some oil and basic supplies.

Please PM me ASAP if you or anyone has a conversion pan on hand or know if a shop that does conversions that may have one. Really frustrated that smallcar doesn’t have one. My plan was to overnight it.

Please PM and I’ll get right back to you.want to try to shop tomorrow before weekend.
Thanks, Keith

[[email protected]]

You should be good as is. Just keep a good eye on it. Any Subaru oil pan should work if you can find one. I think they go on without gasket just gray permaseal.

[Howesight]

I repaired my cast aluminum SmallCar oil pan (the version for the SVX engine) by having the crack TIG welded by a local expert welder. Then I cleaned the pan even further with acetone and a lacquer thinner rinse. Then I painted the entire interior with Glyptal paint which prevents the seepage through the repair area. A welded repair on cast aluminum will always leak if you don't use Glyptal. You might be able to paint right over your field repair after thoroughly cleaning and de-greasing the area.

That pan took another hit later that cracked the original repair area, but the Glyptal held and only a very small seep occurred at the damaged area. (When will I learn to install a proper skid plate??? )
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[mrshrimp]

This is great info, thank you for the insight. We were discussing having a shop weld a repair. Sounds like possible but more of a process given we are 400 miles from home and the hole is the size of a silver dollar with cracks around it. It’s already seeping slowly in one area. We were lucky we were able to patch it.

The good news is that the mechanic and friend who did the conversion has a new pan on hand so will probably have it overnighted tomorrow and just swap it out.

Smallcar did have one used welded pan, and a pan for a newer motor that could work with a little modification. They are 2-3 weeks out on the one I need. Appreciate that the guy there took the time to send me an email with pics and what would need to be modified.

I will follow up with happenings and post pics when back home.

[outcaststudios]

a good welder can totally repair this in aluminum, and who ever said that welded aluminum pans always leak has likelynever welded one themselves. thats insane, if its welded poorly it can leak, and you dont need to coat it with anything. it needs to be thoroughly degreased and(possibly) lightly abraded with glass bead at 90 psi before welding and then hammer and dolly afterwards. itll hold just fine. find a professional with a tig that does AC.
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'88Doka JX td
'69 westy
(rip)couple bugs
(rip)three type III"s
(rip) '81 vanagon
a bunch of french stuff,and 9 motorcycles.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2573791

[dobryan]

Yes a stock oil pan should work. You just lose ground clearance until you get home.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

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[Jake de Villiers]

[Sodo]

[mrshrimp]

Just wanted to share the follow up on this. We were 50+ miles down long dirt road which requires a lot of high clearance and/or 4WD. Honestly one of the worst places to have an issue. As mentioned earlier we puncture the oil pan severely on our EJ25 conversion. This is a somewhat new conversion and am now realizing how vulnerable it can be without additional protection. Luckily it was loud when it happened and so I slowed down and spotted the oil trail. pulling over immediately to prevent engine overheating and damage.

Heres a picture of the rock and aftermath. I didnt realize how deep it was rutted out. It was the end of a 12hr driving day and maybe was not paying attention as I sould have. Though it was just a line of dirt that i might slide on a but there was a rock hiding. I was heavily loaded and the entire weight of the van landed on the rock, and the oil pan tool all the impact.

No cell phone reception anywhere. Towing was probably not an option, although we did learn once back in town that there is one company in the area that can get back where we were. Who knows what that would cost. Luckily some hunters who we kind of know and see most years on this annual trip came of the road the next day randomly and brought us some JB weld and a gallon of oil. We took our time and cleaned the surface with sand and soap, and scored the surface to ensure JB weld bonding. Preparation was key, this needed to last the three hour it takes to drive out. We used a piece of tin can to cover majority of the hole. Heres a pic of preparation, that rag is stuffed in the hole.

Initial patch before JB weld build up

finale patch

We made to the closest town Vale Oregon which was a huge relief and accomplishment given the scenario. I immediately called smallcar and as I mentioned they were 2-3 weeks out on the oil pan. They did mention that a pan for new engine could be used with modification but we just were not in a place to to that. Luckily my friend and mechanic Tom Lengyl over at Syncro Shop had what i needed on hand and was willing to overnight it, but we were in what is considered a rural area and so the overnight was actually 4 days due to going into the weekend and a postal holiday on the following monday. He was able to get it overnighted to Boise Idaho with a true overnight. But i was not confident on driving the can the 1.5hrs it would take to get to boise. How would we get there? Just so happened that the RV park we were staying at in Vale had a car they let folks use for free, with the expectation that you put the gas you used back in. And guess what, it was a streched limo. Really? Seemed like things were really going our way at this point and mentally and emotionally things were feeling better for me.

So we drove in to boise got the part headed back to the RV park and swappped the pan out. Heres some pics:

old pan with hole

new pan

The puncture happened Tuesday night and we had the new pan in by saturday afternoon. The trip was planned through the following thursday and so we headed back out the long rough road and made the most of the remaining days, hunting and fishing alot. The hunters who gave us the JB weld were surprised and happy to see us. We were in a desperate spot the last they saw us.

This was a great learning experience. I will have a more complete emergency kit with all types of epoxy and tape, clamps parts tools ect. Also learned that jsut have to think outside the box and think things through. We talked about how we were going to patch it for hours before we started so we would have a plan. Plus JB weld sets up in 5min so need to be ready.

[Sodo]

Awesome pics and Bordello red Syncro Westy!
I'd be welding up that oilpan...
And build a skidplate too.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[dobryan]

Great ending to the story. I bet that repair would still be going strong for many weeks. Looked like a great prep job.
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Tobias Duncan]

A steel oil pan would probably have just bent and at minimum would not have lost a huge chunk.
What is the advantage of an aluminum pan?

[Vanagon Nut]

I really like this story! Thanks for pics and how it unfolded and was repaired.

The oil pan is aluminum?

The pan on my engine is aluminum and a protective plate is on my list; I'm quite leery of that type of accident happening. Especially something like a flying rock hitting the pan.

I've been considering a wire mesh protective cover of some kind. Or sheet aluminum? But then I wonder if either material would protect the pan against a sharp rock? ie if the cover is close to pan, would it do much to protect the pan? Anyhow......
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[markswagen]

You might want to consider either a steel oil pan, or skid plates for the future.
I've seen and resealed RMW oil pan that took a big hit, it took 2 attempts so seal it, it pulled on all the mounting bolts, as flat as we thought it was, it dripped after the first attempt, 2nd attempt has been fine for many months now, that van is awaiting RMW skid plates.
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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[Howesight]

I suspect that a small manufacturer like SmallCar could not afford to have progressive stamping dies made for a steel oil pan, nor a contract with a stamping mill. Also, if you look at the SmallCar design, which moves the outer walls of the oil pan outward (to gain volume without adding depth), it is obvious that a steel stamping approach would not provide the solid columns that encase the bolts in the SmallCar oil pan.

It is actually a very good design, in my opinion, but every oil pan in a Syncro with an engine conversion which is used off-road requires a skid plate under the oil pan. The factory VW WBX engine is already about 3" higher at the bottom of the VW crankcase, but no conversion engines have this amount of clearance, hence the need for a proper skid plate.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX

[mrshrimp]

The patch held up really well, even after holding oil for a few days while we ere waiting for part it only had a small seep in one corner but was not even dripping.

The smallcar pan is cast aluminum which is pretty brittle, but as howesight mentioned the best option for the suby conversion.

The original sycnro driveline protection were extended and used on my conversion, making it very easy to add a 1/8" thick steel plate in order to protect the oil pan. This is a must as howesight mentioned and sounds like has also had some issues cracking oil pans. More to come on that, already discussing with my dad about the best way to add the plate. Would prefer a bolt on style with recessed grooves so no bolt head sticking out.

[Sodo]

[mrshrimp]

Yeah ive thought about the cooling also. Going to keep a gap all the way around for air flow, should be minimal impact to temp. Want to protection to stay on all the time, dont want to take on and off for off roading, given how much we have it out on high clearance roads.

[syncrodoka]

The stock oil pans are steel.

[Wildthings]