Wanna run this rocker geometry question by you guys...

[67 Sunroof]

So I’m setting up geometry for the first time ever in my life (fun) and have been learning all kinds of new stuff (fun fun)
Sooo, the cam I have (eagle 2241) calls for .006 on the exhaust and .004 on the intake valves. Running cb he aluminum pushrods and larger ended pushrod tubes. AA 1.25 rockers with stock style adjusters.
So I thought I had my rocker height where it was parallel to the head (.499 lift) and looking good. I Colored in the valve stems with marker and ran it through a few cycles. They appear to be hitting high on the valve stems and I have no shims.
So, now I have options:
Lash caps or shave the rocker blocks. I purchased titanium retainers to reduce unsprung weight so the lash caps would add back some weight where I was trying to save it😡
Here are some pics of what I’ve got: help me out some brah’s

You can see the marks based on the the amount of spacers I was using to play around some.
Flame away!!!!! Thank you

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1776cc, CB crank, CB 2241 cam, CB light lifters, CB H-beam rods, CB light flywheel, Mahle forged pistons, A1 Sidewinder exhaust, Dellorto drla 40’s, Hoover modded case, fully balanced, fully flowed, heads by www.type-emotorsports.com, Air ride suspension by https://www.airkewld.com/?Click=3989

[mark tucker]

1st, what is rocker hight Parallel to head and looking good??

[67 Sunroof]

The first picture. The adjuster and pad on rocker arm is parallel to the head. It looked great to me at least?
I’m thinking just shave the thickness of the 2 “spacers” which is .12” I was using to shim the blocks. This would decrease the height and probably get me closer to the center. Then I will set them to strike just right of center with rocker spacers. Just a thought..
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1776cc, CB crank, CB 2241 cam, CB light lifters, CB H-beam rods, CB light flywheel, Mahle forged pistons, A1 Sidewinder exhaust, Dellorto drla 40’s, Hoover modded case, fully balanced, fully flowed, heads by www.type-emotorsports.com, Air ride suspension by https://www.airkewld.com/?Click=3989

[Dan Ruddock]

The rockers in the pic is what your using? There is nothing stock style about those. Run with no shims, use lash caps and cut your pushrod length to put the adjuster position so the oiling holes line up. DONE, don't over think it.

No need to worry about how high or low the contact point on the stem is. If you were running .550" lift, then you might start thinking about shaving the blocks.

Are those dual springs?


Dan

[vwracerdave]

I totally agree Don't over think this, too many people do. With a total valve lift under .500" just eyeball it and get it close and build it, .030" either way isn't going to make a difference.
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[Chickensoup]

i must ask. y did u invest this much mulla into a 1776?
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[67 Sunroof]

I overthink everything. And always buy more than I will need.
I thought the rocker style was like the stock type where the pushrod tubes fit into the slots on the rocker arms.
So no shaving the rocker blocks? With NO shims it still swiped a bit high on the hardened valve stem.
Yes they are double springs but inner are not as stiff.
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1776cc, CB crank, CB 2241 cam, CB light lifters, CB H-beam rods, CB light flywheel, Mahle forged pistons, A1 Sidewinder exhaust, Dellorto drla 40’s, Hoover modded case, fully balanced, fully flowed, heads by www.type-emotorsports.com, Air ride suspension by https://www.airkewld.com/?Click=3989

[67rustavenger]

Shave the rocker blocks.
Look again at my "slipper foot" thread!
I ended up, shaving 0.060" off the rocker blocks to get the the geo correct. 1.4:1 rockers. Yours might be a little less or more.
Mark Tucker helped a great deal on that thread!

I also used lash caps. IMO, they are a must for these type of rockers.

Your valve/stem pattern, looks a bit over top of the optimal swipe.
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[dunk]

Imho

Forget the parallel thing... it's confusing you...

From the specs of your engine.... You have a cool little combo of parts...some real nice pieces, i'm sure it's going to be a blast to drive..

This is a topic that CAN get very confusing , there's many ways to do it... and many different theories as to what is important and where the loads are the highest on components... welcome to the internet!.. haha..

I would say for your current engine, Dan and Dave have summed it up... do what they say, and it will work! Fact!...

However, you say you over think things, so im guessing you'll want to have a rough idea as to WHY theyre suggesting these things.. yes?!

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9327261&highlight=#9327261

Get yourself some coffee, Read Ohio Tom's post... and really think about it... mock your valve train up in a similar fashion...

I'm sure he and others will clarify, if you have questions...

It's internet gold, I promise you.

[Ohio Tom]

Don't use those shims permanently. They will beat the aluminum and loosen up over time. It will end badly.

You need big full face shims to do it correctly.

I agree that you might be over-thinking. Contact location has more to do with the rocker design, not the setup/shimming. It's just how that particular set of rockers contact on the pads.
As long as you are contained on the valve tip, you are fine.

You will be modifying alot just to move the contact patch to the center and throw a bunch of other stuff way off in the process. I have seen some pretty crazy mods done to try and get the contact patch centered. Money better spent on a different set of rockers. Or just leave it alone....

I know lots of folks here advocate cutting down rocker pads.. I have never had to do that ever...
Geometry is a funny thing. You have to stand back and look at the big picture.

[AlteWagen]

While I agree it will work , the accelerated valve guide wear can be excessive in my experience.

Back in my teenage leadfoot high revving big cam days valve train failure was a weekly issue. Started off with VW type 1.25 with wired clips, upgraded to bolt on shafts and tapered pushrods. Helped for a while but when installing bigger cam upgraded to 1.25 Autocraft pad type. Since I had never set up that type of rocker a guy from the club helped out. Got a similar pattern to yours and installed lash caps to bring it down a bit. I remember him trying a few different thickness caps to get the best pattern and called it good. I had put new 041 heads with the new cam and at the 10K mile inspection noticed the shot guides. I took the heads to the old man at ARAO and asked about going through the heads. He told me to take more time setting up the geometry for longer guide life next time. Ive been taking my time ever since to get it as close as possible.

Do what makes you feel better but do go so crazy as you will never get to actually drive the thing!
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[raul arrese]

Ditch the shims and put lash caps , should move the pattern closer to the center , well it should...
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[mark tucker]

every set of those rockers Ive used the heads needed milling the blocks .040~.060 to be right,and yes you have to use lash caps on those if you want it to last. I thought you has stock style rockers...witch are pure shit( but cb perf makes/sells the best shit one's) you also need to check the tip to shaft squareness to be sure they are square. and add flats to the ends of pushrods.

[mcmscott]

Ditch those rockers with that cam, those rockers are gonna be close to 1.35 ratio or higher. Should use a vw style rocker with that cam.
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67 T-1
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[Dan Ruddock]

[67 Sunroof]

Thanks for the suggestions peeps. I’m gonna read up on ohiotom’s thread now. I think understanding it is kinda cool. Why and how and changing what affects what.
IF lashcaps are used I’ve heard to just go for the Berg’s because they are harder.
So I’m thinking lashcaps, or shave the blocks and then use shims to fine tune it.
Gonna read up on it.
So your saying the cap doesn’t have enough “breathing” for the larger 1.3 rockers? It’s not a high lift cam-just a street cam.
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1776cc, CB crank, CB 2241 cam, CB light lifters, CB H-beam rods, CB light flywheel, Mahle forged pistons, A1 Sidewinder exhaust, Dellorto drla 40’s, Hoover modded case, fully balanced, fully flowed, heads by www.type-emotorsports.com, Air ride suspension by https://www.airkewld.com/?Click=3989

[mcmscott]

CB's Eagle 2241 is a copy of an engle 110, would you put 1.4 rockers on a 110?
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There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,

68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250

[Dan Ruddock]

[67 Sunroof]

[Chickensoup]

no you dont want 1.4s on a cam designed for 1.1 . ramps too mild
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-'85 c10 5.3 LS, cam, heads, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'01 e46 325ci *tree modded
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP