Could it be something other than the rear main seal?

[ddye]

OK, long story short. I just finished replacing the rear main seal on Nelly-kiki and it is still leaking.

I replaced:

- Rear main seal
- felt washer
- fly wheel
- fly wheel o-ring
- clutch
- pressure plate
- Thrust bearing
- Pilot bearing
- dipstick o-ring
- Everything torqued to spec

Made sure all surfaces were clean and undamaged prior to reinstallation. One exception. The shims were worn. However, I checked the end play with them in place and it was within spec so I went ahead and used them.

Is there any place else the oil could be coming from? I checked the oil cooler and it seems to be fine. The pictures, and my eyes, are telling me it is the rear main seal still leaking.

HELP!

_________________
1988 Westy
2.1 Boston Bob Rebuild
"Nelly"

[DanHoug]

on the engine case behind the flywheel are several oil galley plugs that are notorious for leaking. the permanent fix is remove them, tap the hole, and install a loctited threaded plug. on my rebuild, those plugs were not leaking but i cleaned them up and JB Welded over them. not sure if that does anything other than make me feel better. the smallest oil leak would provide 50 psi oil pressure against a roughly 1" diameter plug which is a fair bit of hydraulic pressure.

you mentioned you replaced the flywheel... was it a reconditioned one, new, good used, etc? i've found the flywheel seal surface to be quite finicky in terms of not leaking. some have gotten away with chucking the FW up in a lathe or drill and sanding down the grooves. i like the Speedi-Sleeve repair myself as it actually slightly INCREASES seal tension.

what brand seal did you install? Sabo seems to be the consensus of the best available and comparing the Victor/Elring seal supplied in gasket kits to the Sabo, it is certainly more robust.

one Samba poster found he had oil leaks through the FW bolts themselves as reportedly the bolt holes enter an area with oil splash or pressure. he'd taken to using loctite on the threads to seal oil seepage. your drip looks more substantial than what could seem to seep thru.

consider your blowby too. had an '85 with an auto and hence flex plate but couldn't get that bugger to stop dripping despite new seal and flexplate. too much crankcase pressure was forcing the oil out.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[Wildthings]

You did remove the old flywheel o-ring before installing the new one didn't you?

I don't think it is possible for oil to leak around the bolt threads. I think that would require a cracked crankshaft for that to happen.

I would certainly be looking at the oil galley plugs as I have lost two of them on Type 4 engines.

Type 1 engines were known for cracking and thus leaking oil in weird places, but I haven't heard of this on a WBXer engine.

Is it just a lighting trick or do you actually have a gap between the engine and bellhousing?

[halfassleatherworks]

maybe the cam plug. it does happen.

[DanHoug]

[ddye]

OK, to answer a couple questions from above and ask another while adding more information.

The gasket I used was the Sabo

New flywheel from GoWesty

Yes, I removed the old flywheel o-ring when I trashed the old flywheel


I think I have a couple things going on. First, when I removed the transmission and looked through the pressure plate hole, I noticed that the metal washer that holds the little felt washer in place had dislodged itself and I can't see the felt washer. Note: once I get the pressure plate and clutch off I find the felt washer just sort of floating around in the clutch area.

Question: the felt washer looks kinda shot. How necessary is this little guy? And, is that the direction the metal washer should be facing? (see pic below).

Now that I have the pressure plate and flywheel off, I see that the rear seal is leaking badly. I really thought I had put it in correctly but if you look at the pictures below, it seems like there is space between the shims and the rear seal. I can stick my finger in there.

Questions: as you can see, I countersunk the rear seal, as Boston Bob says to do. Did I not sink it enough? If I have not counter sunk it enough, can I just sink this one further in or do I need to replace it? (I have another Sabo that I bought in case I messed this up).

Wait, now that I looked at the pics closely, I see what you guys are talking about with the plug leaking. I just ran outside and cleaned off the black plug in the pic above and sure and this thing is dripping, it is dripping from the middle of the black plug!!! Wooppii!

Note: I could have just posted the last sentence but I spent so long on the post, I wanted to post it. Maybe the next human will learn from it.




Thanks everyone for the help!
_________________
1988 Westy
2.1 Boston Bob Rebuild
"Nelly"

[Wildthings]

There is supposed to be a space between the shims and the seal. You drive the seal in until it bottoms against a shoulder in the bore, that's it, you can't drive it any further. It is hard to look at a seal and tell if it has been leaking out not, especially just looking at pictures. I like to use a dab of sealant at the case parting line before installing the seal, as that is the most likely place for the seal to leak on its exterior.

Where are you finding oil within the bellhousing? Oil leaking from the sealing surface would travel down the back of the flywheel from centrifugal force, while oil leaking from elsewhere would likely just run down the face of the crankcase. Check that none of the galley plugs look to have been pushed out at all.

[Wildthings]

[halfassleatherworks]

if you are referring to the cam plug. your Wooppii just turned to O shit I have to split the case

[ddye]

[halfassleatherworks]

I am not joking. the cam plug is leaking. that means at least a tear down and reseal of the case " better know as a Overhaul "

unless someone has a expansion plug that will fit.

[Wildthings]

How about supporting the case so the cam plug is pointing to the ceiling and then spraying the heck out of the plug with brake cleaner. Then use some low viscosity sealant that will wick into any gaps and seal them up.

[halfassleatherworks]

[Wildthings]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Machine a steel plate with five or six perimeter holes, and then carefully drill and tap the shoulder around the plug with the same schedule as the plate. Fashion a gasket and Reinzosil, screw in the bevel head screws and then feel like a smug genius who cheated fate.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[AndyBees]

WildThings, you beat me to it .. so, I deleted my post.

Yep, virtually zero oil pressure at the end of the Cam.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI, two trips to Alaska, 2014 & 16. 1989 Tin-top unmolested.
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine, seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. 1975 Bay hopeful.

[halfassleatherworks]

Ok I stand corrected, not full oil pressure, but flow / spray pressure from the cam bearing. there are always ways to temporary fix it. but to do it right, there can only be 1.

[ddye]

[ddye]

[borninabus]

that doesn't look like engine oil from here.
is your van an automatic?
the bellhousing looks like it is.

you say you replaced the thrust bearing. meaning you split the case and replaced the #1 crankshaft bearing? or you replaced the "big" thrust washer?

i went through this recently on my 88 auto.
it leaked quite a bit of ATF upon initial start up and has settled down to a minuscule drip since then.
_________________
88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport