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Achtung360
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2014
Posts: 70
Location: Florida
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 Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:57 am Post subject: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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Hello I have what I believe to be a Zwitter but the car was titled in 1953
Can anyone confirm and actual value of the car? Has minimal rust and needs new floor but pans heater channels good.
Thank You
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VWLady
Crazy VW Lady
Joined: March 13, 2004
Posts: 3866
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:01 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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The body number says it's an October 1952 body and the chassis appears to be from September 1952 so I'd say you have a 1952 zwitter.
Is the chassis number the same as what is on the tag in the front above the body number? |
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Achtung360
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2014
Posts: 70
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:09 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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| nlorntson wrote: |
The body number says it's an October 1952 body and the chassis appears to be from September 1952 so I'd say you have a 1952 zwitter.
Is the chassis number the same as what is on the tag in the front above the body number? |
On the birth plate it should have the chassis number stamped on it? Its so rusted it doesn't seem to have much after 1 - |
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VWLady
Crazy VW Lady
Joined: March 13, 2004
Posts: 3866
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:30 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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| Achtung360 wrote: |
Is the chassis number the same as what is on the tag in the front above the body number? |
| Quote: |
On the birth plate it should have the chassis number stamped on it? Its so rusted it doesn't seem to have much after 1 - |
Yes the upper right hand corner of the front plate should have the same number as what is found under the rear seat on the chassis if the body and pan left the production line together in October 1952.
Some fine steel wool or sandpaper may help to clean off the corrosion and reveal a number. |
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Jimone
Samba Member
Joined: August 01, 2021
Posts: 441
Location: Kansas
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:49 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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| nlorntson wrote: |
Yes the upper right hand corner of the front plate should have the same number as what is found under the rear seat on the chassis if the body and pan left the production line together in October 1952.
Some fine steel wool or sandpaper may help to clean off the corrosion and reveal a number. |
its also possible that the numbers would be readible on the back side of the plate. the numbers were punched in and punched pretty deep. the front side oxidation usually wont have had an impact on the metal on the back of the plate. its riveted in, so i think you would have to drill out the rivets to check.
regarding the numbers there is a spreadsheet in the technical section under vin/chassis numbers. this will help you date this car as well as future vws you run into. the numbers are the LAST number produced each month. here is a link:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/bugchassisdating.php
_________________
november 1952 ragtop
november 1954 single cab |
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ZENVWDRIVER
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 3338
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:02 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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… and i'd say both the body number and VIN are 10/52 - great color - would be tough to give you a fair market price (value) without seeing the car or at least pictures of it - 1952 and '53s were the nicest oval-dash cars - good luck, with it - provide some pictures - z
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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ZENVWDRIVER
Samba Member
Joined: November 07, 2008
Posts: 3338
Location: N.E. Oklahoma
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:15 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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| Jimone wrote: |
| nlorntson wrote: |
Yes the upper right hand corner of the front plate should have the same number as what is found under the rear seat on the chassis if the body and pan left the production line together in October 1952.
Some fine steel wool or sandpaper may help to clean off the corrosion and reveal a number. |
its also possible that the numbers would be readible on the back side of the plate. the numbers were punched in and punched pretty deep. the front side oxidation usually wont have had an impact on the metal on the back of the plate. its riveted in, so i think you would have to drill out the rivets to check.
regarding the numbers there is a spreadsheet in the technical section under vin/chassis numbers. this will help you date this car as well as future vws you run into. the numbers are the LAST number produced each month. here is a link:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/bugchassisdating.php |
… but I would not damage the front-VIN plate fasteners, just to be able to read the numbers, from behind - seems like a pretty original car - so, weather or not you are ever able to read the VIN numbers (on the plate) is sorta' inconsequential as they probably match the ones on the pan, due to the original condition, of the car - I would not place so much importance, on that - z
_________________
5/50, pastel green 11G - SOLD
8/50, gray 11A Beetle
6/52, pastel green 11C - SOLD
11/4/52, black Zwitter - SOLD to my little bro.
1954 Porsche, pre A, with VW 36 horse- SOLD
1/54, black 11C Beetle - TRADED
2/55 Iceland green Beetle, on a 1965 pan
3/55 113 Beetle, stratos silver
1955 Messerschmitt KR175 - SOLD, sadly
1960 single cab
1962 SO33, with SO 42 interior
9/63 Pacific blue, Ghia
'87 Toyota MR2
'02 WestFORDia E-150, GAVE TO OUR SON
All super-heroes, wear a MASK |
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Achtung360
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2014
Posts: 70
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:01 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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| nlorntson wrote: |
The body number says it's an October 1952 body and the chassis appears to be from September 1952 so I'd say you have a 1952 zwitter.
Is the chassis number the same as what is on the tag in the front above the body number? |
Nlorntson, is normal for the dates on the body and the chassis to be that far apart in months?
Thanks for all the good information everyone. |
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 10502
Location: not far from the madding crowd
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| Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:11 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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I agree with the Z - both numbers are oct 52 and don't remove the vin plate otherwise people will claim it's not original to the car...
from the samba table
last numbers from sept 52 - 1-0397014 body 337 545
it would be worthwhile getting the birth certificate for the car
and, yes, more pictures/background please
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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DrDarby
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 6544
Location: Northern Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:32 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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I have the opposite issue with mine. I have a Jan -02 -53 built Zwitter titled as a 1952.
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Midwest Autosavers, Inc. Crystal Lake, IL |
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 10502
Location: not far from the madding crowd
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:42 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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is it possible to have the documents corrected if you show the evidence?
_________________
"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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DrDarby
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 6544
Location: Northern Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 6:44 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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I have the opposite issue with mine. I have a Jan -02 -53 built Zwitter titled as a 1952.
_________________
Midwest Autosavers, Inc. Crystal Lake, IL |
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Achtung360
Samba Member
Joined: September 10, 2014
Posts: 70
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2022 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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| finster wrote: |
| is it possible to have the documents corrected if you show the evidence? |
Thanks for the information
On the chassis and the title the VIN ends in 8692 and on the birth plate where the body number should be its stamped 8892 one digit off. This can't be normal can it?
It looks like it was stamped incorrectly from the factory and who ever eye balled the car mistook the 86 on the chassis for 88. I can't explain the situation otherwise. |
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finster
Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012
Posts: 10502
Location: not far from the madding crowd
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| Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:15 am Post subject: Re: A 53 Zwitter or not? I have a possible Zwitter |
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that does seem odd, are you saying the number on this plate is 1-0398892?
I would have expected the quality inspectors to notice this as they would check it against the paperwork and the spec would have had to match (paint colour etc)
either way it is still not a 53 car. last chassis for oct 52 was 1-0408 537
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"we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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