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JJfierce
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2020
Posts: 83
Location: San Diego, CA
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 Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:11 pm Post subject: Question about heater box clips |
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| I've had all sorts of heater problems since I purchased my van, so it looks like my next project will be to tackle the heater core/blower/fan resistor. It appears that the clips to reseal the box are sold out everywhere other than Vanagain, and I'm looking at $80 just for these clips! Has anyone had any success resealing their box with other methods? |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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JJfierce
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2020
Posts: 83
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Some folk glue it back together.
They originally were sealed shut by heating molded on tabs until they melted together.
I stepped up and spent the coin fir the clips from VanCafe very recently.
The first time I needed them I got them from a VW dealer.
If I didn’t have clips I would drill holes at each clip location and use small zip ties.
I would NOT GLUE!!!! Ever Ever Never.
You aren’t seeking 100% air tight.
You just want to keep both halves firmly together.
Dave |
Thanks Dave. Work has been slow this season so I am on somewhat of a budget and I think I might try the zip tie route. Would that combined with some RTV be sufficient?
_________________
Ludwig Van - 1984 Vanagon GL, 1.9L manual transmission |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 5850
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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or you can pre-drill holes and put in tiny screws. i wouldn't RTV it, you'll be back into it sooner or later. it was 3 years for me!
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17884
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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its the same clip up to the new beetle and beyond
321819059
any dealer should be able to get them. you need 10 according to ETKA
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12170
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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I just got done rebuilding my third T3 heater box, and the first box that didn't have clips from the factory. The first box I did was on an '86 Syncro, and the second on an '84 ASI. This third one was on another '86 Syncro, so there doesn't seem to be any coherent guidelines as to which boxes are clipped and which aren't. I just so happened to have had enough clips in my stash, though I haven't a clue where I harvested them. I seem to recall that Mk1 Rabbits used those clips.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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VicVan
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015
Posts: 1975
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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Small holes, and zipties.
Don't spend $80 on clips you don't need!
_________________
'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH) |
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JJfierce
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2020
Posts: 83
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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Thanks for the advice everyone! I think I’m gonna go the screw route. Any advice so I don’t have to go back in the next week? Hoping I don’t have to do this again for a very long time…
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Ludwig Van - 1984 Vanagon GL, 1.9L manual transmission |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 8470
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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Screws work, FTW!
FWIW: I may have a bag of clips I once got in a karma deal; if you (or anyone else)
really want, I'll spend some time looking through the parts department tomorrow...
It's supposed to be above 10°!!! 
PM's welcome... 
- Dave
_________________
86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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DanHoug
Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2016
Posts: 5850
Location: Bemidji, MN
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Do NOT USE AN AFTERMARKET HEATER CORE!
Pressure test and repair the original.
Do not use rubber for flap seals. Closed shell foam (camper shell foam) or Felt weather stripping,
Do the Jeep resistor mod.
Carefully free up all of your cables so they move like lubricated silk.
Clean your ground trees while the dash is off
Lube your wiper linkage while the dash is off
Renew your washer nozzles and hoses while the dash is off
Replace your crappy plastic Ram Air intake screen with an expanded wire gutter guard to keep the mice out.
Dave |
i just got back from an 8 mile vanagon jaunt for the sole reason to drive with heat from my refurbed OE heater core that heats so darn well! i was grinnin' and putting my hand over the heat vents the whole time. anyway.
i'll add that when the heater box is out, jam stainless steel or copper pan scrubbies into the inside recesses of the air scoop to keep mice out. they pack in nicely and mine haven't moved/unravelled since i put them in 3 year ago. there's some open corners that aren't covered when screening the front intake. my heater box had ZERO debris from mice, leaves, etc. with the intake screened off.
you may want to consider leaving the baffle plate out. for those of us in cold climates, removing it slows air flow for a given volume thru the heater core by exposing more of the core to the air flow. but understand that in removing the baffle, ram air can push a HUGE quantity of air thru the core and result in tepid air. so partially block off the ram intake to reduce the quantity of air when max heat is needed. in the summer, open the ram back up for fresh air flow. the combo of baffle removed and blocking some ram air makes for terrific heat.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.
'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd
Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52566
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:40 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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A previous owner glued the heater box shut on my 83 1/2 using plastic cement all the way around. It probably took me 2-3 hours to get it open by carefully tapping an Exacto knife along the seam and I still did some damage in places. RTV doesn't have much structural strength so in combination with screws or clips would help to seal the box, I wouldn't hesitate to use it here.
I removed the baffle plate on one of my Vanagons and drilled extra holes in the plate in another, both ideas got more heat into the cab. Somewhere I posted about doing this. There is a thread from a dozen'ish years ago, where I talk about this.
Sad that VW didn't supply every Vanagon with a small bag of clips, it would have cost them about 50 cents per vehicle and saved a whole lot of aggravation. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17884
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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| DanHoug wrote: |
you may want to consider leaving the baffle plate out. |
| DanHoug wrote: |
| but understand that in removing the baffle, ram air can push a HUGE quantity of air thru the core and result in tepid air.. |
hence the reason it's there.
no way would i remove it. you may mentally "feel" more air flow but the heat will be so-so at best.
want a sanity test?
go to any modern car (or your van) and get it up to normal operating temperature. make sure your modern car has the RECIRC in the OFF position so it's sucking cold outside air.
now put a decent digital thermometer in the center dash vent. put the fan speed on HIGH for about 3 mins. note the temp.
now, remove the thermometer to let it get back down to ambient. once that happens, shove it back in the center vent and put the fan speed on LOW for the same amount of time. i bet you pick up 15-20* MORE heat at the low setting.
the heater core will make more heat with less air flow over it as it has more 'dwell' time to 'heat soak'
removing the plate will allow more air flow, so you go from a gentle breeze out of the vents to a hurricane but you are reducing heater output by "overcooling" the core.
that's my 0.02. everyone tried to talk me into removing it when i had my box out, and i'm glad i didn't. i have enough heat to bake a cake and with the rear heater on it's a nice even heat in the van
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52566
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| DanHoug wrote: |
you may want to consider leaving the baffle plate out. |
| DanHoug wrote: |
| but understand that in removing the baffle, ram air can push a HUGE quantity of air thru the core and result in tepid air.. |
hence the reason it's there.
no way would i remove it. you may mentally "feel" more air flow but the heat will be so-so at best.
want a sanity test?
go to any modern car (or your van) and get it up to normal operating temperature. make sure your modern car has the RECIRC in the OFF position so it's sucking cold outside air.
now put a decent digital thermometer in the center dash vent. put the fan speed on HIGH for about 3 mins. note the temp.
now, remove the thermometer to let it get back down to ambient. once that happens, shove it back in the center vent and put the fan speed on LOW for the same amount of time. i bet you pick up 15-20* MORE heat at the low setting.
the heater core will make more heat with less air flow over it as it has more 'dwell' time to 'heat soak'
removing the plate will allow more air flow, so you go from a gentle breeze out of the vents to a hurricane but you are reducing heater output by "overcooling" the core.
that's my 0.02. everyone tried to talk me into removing it when i had my box out, and i'm glad i didn't. i have enough heat to bake a cake and with the rear heater on it's a nice even heat in the van |
Your argument is a bit inane. If removing the baffle caused the heater core to over cool, it would mean that there is significantly more heat moving from the core to the air entering the cab, which is the idea behind removing the baffle in the first place. Second the argument that air gets hotter with more dwell time is very often false. On my Bay I more than doubled the air flow through the heater boxes and the temperatures at both the outlets of the boxes and at the windshield went up substantially. In reality more air flow means more turbulence and more turbulence often means more heat can move from the fins into the air flow.
If you look at this thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2802129
you will see that I actually tested the temperature of the outlet of the heater in both my Vanagons. The results of the test showed that drilling extra holes in the baffle plate greatly increased the temperature of the outlet air. The test was less conclusive as to the removal of the plate, but doing so likely increase the outlet air temps a bit while also increasing the volume, so the heat flow would have gone up.
Could this testing been improved on? Certainly, but to the best of my knowledge it is the best anyone has posted here to date.
For what it's worth, on a stock system with the baffle in place you can drop the engine temp during prolonged idling at 0°F ambient and a 40+ mph wind, and still be cold inside the cab. The engine just will not put out enough heat in those situations, baffle or no baffle. Driving down the road at 60 mph at 0°F ambient is a different matter as the engine is making lots of heat and you might as well dump it into the cab as dump it through the radiator. |
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panzer
Samba Member
Joined: November 12, 2008
Posts: 49
Location: San Antonio, TX.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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| As for the clip issue. My 81 has clips, my 82 diesel had clips, my 87 was cemented/no clips. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17884
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:47 am Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| words..... |
i stand by what i said.
go and do my test, i dare you. you'll see slower airflow=hotter duct temps.
any car at idle won't make near as much heat as having an engine under load, i don't care what kind of car you have....it's pretty obvious at idle it isn't working hard and making heat
the more cold air you flow over the heater core=less heater output in any car, any configuration
don't make me make a video
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32989
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
A previous owner glued the heater box shut on my 83 1/2 using plastic cement all the way around. It probably took me 2-3 hours to get it open by carefully tapping an Exacto knife along the seam and I still did some damage in places. RTV doesn't have much structural strength so in combination with screws or clips would help to seal the box, I wouldn't hesitate to use it here.
I removed the baffle plate on one of my Vanagons and drilled extra holes in the plate in another, both ideas got more heat into the cab. Somewhere I posted about doing this. There is a thread from a dozen'ish years ago, where I talk about this.
Sad that VW didn't supply every Vanagon with a small bag of clips, it would have cost them about 50 cents per vehicle and saved a whole lot of aggravation. |
There is zero reason to seal the box seam.
VW sure didn't, why do you feel the need to do so?
Just hold the two halves together with something. Why ruin the next guys day fighting sealer?!?
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Captain Pike
Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003
Posts: 3439
Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Question about heater box clips |
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Self tapping screws.
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LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
....Bad Sneakers.... |
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