Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it?
Page: 1, 2  Next
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Munden5
Samba Member


Joined: April 28, 2021
Posts: 2
Location: MT
Munden5 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:29 pm    Post subject: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Hi everybody,
This is my first post and it’s probably in the wrong place so please forgive me. I bought a 1966 VW beetle and the engine was out. Although it’s a 6 volt engine It’s doesn’t appear to be a 1300. According to the location of the serial number(on the top by the generator base) and not below it, it looks to be an engine from maybe a Type 3?
Anyway, The engine spins freely and I was going to try to start it once it’s back in the vehicle. I went to drop the oil and found tons of sludge, sediment and water. The water came out first…then the funky oil and sediment( see pics).
My questions is this. Should I even try to start this engine? Should the engine just be considered toast? Or is there something I can put in the crankcase to clean it up…then put new oil in it?
I’m not a mechanic but I can and do repairs on my own cars and my daughters 1970 VW beetle.
Let me know your thoughts!

Thanks,
Travis
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Vanapplebomb
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 4973
Location: Holland, MI
Vanapplebomb is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Pop the valve covers off. If the valve springs have any rust at all, I wouldn’t try and start/run it. Very high risk of scattering the entire engine when a valve spring breaks while running. You may well have a number of good useable parts there for a rebuild, but I wouldn’t gamble it all on a rusty valve spring.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwracerdave
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 14812
Location: Deep in the 405
vwracerdave is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

With all those solid chunks in the filter something is going wrong inside the engine. I'd tear it apart for a full inspection.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
RCP Phx
Samba Member


Joined: November 20, 2021
Posts: 495
Location: Phoenix,AZ
RCP Phx is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Between the oil filter screen and the outside photo the only way to tell is to split the case!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
Munden5
Samba Member


Joined: April 28, 2021
Posts: 2
Location: MT
Munden5 is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

[
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

quote="Vanapplebomb"]

Pop the valve covers off. If the valve springs have any rust at all, I wouldn’t try and start/run it. Very high risk of scattering the entire engine when a valve spring breaks while running. You may well have a number of good useable parts there for a rebuild, but I wouldn’t gamble it all on a rusty valve spring.[/quote]

They look pretty darn good. What do you think?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Vanapplebomb
Samba Member


Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 4973
Location: Holland, MI
Vanapplebomb is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

A little surface imperfection goes a long way on valve springs. I see some rust spots on the springs in the first couple pictures. I wouldn’t try and run it as it sits. I would tear it down and salvage what you can.
_________________
1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 10239
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 12:55 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

With that much gunk in the bottom I would expect on or more valves were open, that is likely where the water got in and you will have a cylinder or two with water damage. Stuck rings and piston scoring will be the result if started without cleaning them up. You might have some rusty valves and valve seats too.

As for the valve springs... mahhh... stock engine, stock springs and cam, low rpms... clean them up and see. Toss the ones with pits.
_________________
I never finish anything, I have a black belt in partial arts!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
txoval
Samba Member


Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3285
Location: The Woodlands, TX
txoval is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Anything else is a waste of time and money.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
madmike
Samba Member


Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 4959
Location: Atlanta,Michigan
madmike is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:09 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Whats the drain plate area look like ?
I've seen water eat the case their Wink
_________________
'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
NJ John
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2007
Posts: 1547
Location: HdG, MD & NJ
NJ John is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

I’ve seen water eat the case around the sump plate, as Mike said. And one where the bottom of the cam gear was rotted right off.
_________________
1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Emeraldlion
Samba Member


Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 715
Location: Texarkana, TX
Emeraldlion is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Hell, life is short. You only live once. Throw some fresh oil in it, marvel mystery a few drops in the cylinders overnight. Try and fire the bad boy up and give it some rpms. If it blows it blows, if not change the oil again and run it until it does blow.
_________________
1967 Sunroof Beetle: tourist pass car
1961 SWR Kombi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Clatter
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 6778
Location: Santa Cruz
Clatter is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Salvageable?

Only one way to know;
rip it apart and see what's in there.

If nothing else you'll get some parts.
_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 10239
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Or you could follow Emeraldlion's advice and end up with some tins, a few nuts and bolts and maybe a carb.
_________________
I never finish anything, I have a black belt in partial arts!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Emeraldlion
Samba Member


Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 715
Location: Texarkana, TX
Emeraldlion is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Lol, oh ye of little faith.
_________________
1967 Sunroof Beetle: tourist pass car
1961 SWR Kombi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
NJ John
Samba Member


Joined: September 21, 2007
Posts: 1547
Location: HdG, MD & NJ
NJ John is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

I told my horror stories, but rebuilt both engines.
As someone posted earlier, run some fresh oil though it and give it a try.
_________________
1973 standard, yellow, lowered, 3” narrowed front, 1600 blo-thru turbo w/single dell
11.41 et buggy. Long gone
Let’s go O’s! Let’s go O’s!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Lingwendil
Samba Member


Joined: February 25, 2009
Posts: 3774
Location: Antioch, California, a block from the hood
Lingwendil is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Too many crunchy bits in there for me to be happy starting that as-is.
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
esde
Samba Member


Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5282
Location: central rust belt
esde is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

If it had an oil filter, yes, fill with fresh oil and send it. Without a filter, all that grit is going into the bearings and lifter bores. If you're hoping to use this on your new beetle, best to tear it down. Best case scenario you clean everything and put it all back together, but if you start it now add in a crank polish or grind and who knows what else..
_________________
modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
MuzzcoVW
Samba Member


Joined: February 21, 2018
Posts: 911
Location: Westfield, MA.
MuzzcoVW is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 3:39 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

txoval wrote:
Needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Anything else is a waste of time and money.
Agreed. Not worth the risk...especially when the hard part is done and it's out of the car
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
oprn
Samba Member


Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 10239
Location: Western Canada
oprn is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Emeraldlion wrote:
Lol, oh ye of little faith.

More like: Oh us of little budget!

"Faith is the substance of things unseen" - we can clearly see the substance in this case!
_________________
I never finish anything, I have a black belt in partial arts!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Emeraldlion
Samba Member


Joined: April 13, 2005
Posts: 715
Location: Texarkana, TX
Emeraldlion is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Water and sediment in old engine- Is it salvageable?Or worth it? Reply with quote

Fair enough. I guess I have saved up a lot of spare parts. I see that as part of the fun with these old things. If the budget is tight, and the skills are not there to be cracking the engine open. I had a 60 beetle from Montana that presented similarly on the valvetrain and didn't have any trouble firing up and running. Went on for a few hundred miles before I redid rings and cylinders. I will admit it did not have that amount of water inside the case though.
_________________
1967 Sunroof Beetle: tourist pass car
1961 SWR Kombi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB