Perplexed! Clogged Breather > Mainseal Leak > FIXED???

[E1]

“Perplexed” barely covers this one...

We’re now on the return trip back west after going from Bayfield, Colorado, to the SCCA Runoffs in Virginia (sports car national championships), down Blue Ridge into Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, and into eastern Texas now.

I’ve bragged hereabouts that we lost no oil over the first 3,000+ miles, running at about 0.1 above the low notch on the dipstick, then we showed about 0.2 of the stick loss over the next thousand, and attributed that to not having a new drain plug washer that did show a very small leak spot about 3,000 miles ago — and oil level anomalies that sometimes occur.

Then I swapped in a new oil filter maybe 700 miles ago, and drove about 300 miles. In a cursory engine bay check, I found a sizable oil puddle just below the access port at the driver’s forward part of the engine, and started with real concern.

I cleaned it up, oil level was at maybe 0.3 between the notches, and drove about 250 miles to a new campsite. There, the puddle was back and concerns were reaching freakout proportions, as some friends here can attest. Know that roughly 25% of the past five years have had us off the road and we all have limits!

So I pulled off the crankcase breather on a hunch, as supported by a concerned air-cooled mechanic in Las Cruces I called to try to convince doing a mainseal if we were able to limp like a thousand miles to get there. Michael lists himself as “Vintage Air Cooled German Cars” online, and spent a long while of dedicated interest on a non-customer out of a genuine VW brotherhood that has definitely waned over our decade of ownership, suggesting shops from Little Rock to Tucson, and even contacting a couple. THANKS MICHAEL!!!

So in pulling off the aftermarket breather everyone carries now for lack of an original VW one, it was clearly clogged with oily dirt closing off the tiny hole under the lip. There *was not* a hole when purchased, so I drilled one to match what VW did... but luckily kept my old original tower as a spare.

I soaked both towers a bit too long yesterday, using carb cleaner out of sheer ignorance when I had a feeling I should have used my mineral spirits. Having little experience with carb cleaner and its effect on rubber it was a BIG MISTAKE, or maybe not... the solvent destroyed the diaphragms on both, though to be fair I didn’t study them before cleaning. But what I do know is sucking on the original no longer moved the diaphragm, and it absolutely *was moving* before the soaking.

Before we left today, the stick was at 0.3. We drove about 100 miles, and the stick showed the oil level with the top notch, when I’d predicted about 0.0 to 0.2 based on losing 0.3 on the prior 250 mile run that created the second puddle.

And suddenly there’s no leakage atop the block at all!

I may be premature and will check the level and the block all the way west. My theory is the crankcase pressure got high enough with the clogged breather as to trap oil in recesses I am unaware of, and force oil out of the path of least resistance... presumably the mainseal in this case.

I just bought a jug of ATP stop leak in case this isn’t fixed. But at this point we feel a ton of relief, whereas yesterday we felt we’d *finally had enough*.

Thanks to my friends here, you know who you are.
_________________
1984 Westfailure/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s
AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." — Colin Chapman

Jonathan Weisheit, Race in Peace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3dS7xiFn7I&t=500s

[jlrftype7]

Glad to hear about the progress- maybe the service life of these new breather towers isn’t as long as we’d like…
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[djkeev]

Good to hear you may have inadvertently fixed it!

I've never been convinced of the need for a new breather tower.
Oh, to be clear mine is 100% shot and I removed the rest of the rotten rubber three years ago!

Unlike you, I siliconed (yes, I actually used silicone! 😳) that stupid tiny little hole on the rim because it blew out oil all over the engine case top!

My oil use is so little that I almost never check it any more.

Not sure that the tower is needed or does much..... who knows?
I'll continue to motor along in ignorant bliss until something happens to convince me otherwise.
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[DanHoug]

here's my previous photos, tests, and musings on the breather tower, starting the link on Page 2 for the ADD folk. still don't know what the heck the design operation was supposed to be-- need those dead VW engineers to resurface.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20

here's a lonnnngggggg thread on the breather tower.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

i have no conclusion on this device. i don't carry a spare.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[bobbyblack]

_________________
'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[ALIKA T3]

The new breather towers from JP Crap have the little drain hole in the inner elbow/p-trap thing.

These towers are built in similar fashion/logic as the hockey pucks on inline engines with the membrane.
_________________
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Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[E1]

Thanks for the input, All!

Too whooped now to reply coherently, not that there’s anything new there.

Drove a few hundred miles today. Oil’s gone down from full top notch to about 0.7, which I’d consider normal loss from top notch.

We’ll see tomorrow, if engine block is still dry I will feel better. I only went 55 before seeing it dry before lunch today, since then I’ve gone 65 to 70 in case revs have any bearing on leakage from case.

Still little drip mark on ground but no more new oil on bumper or hatch, think there’s just some left at bell housing bottom.

The entire sitch is confounding. But I am reasonably convinced that when the little hole is clogged, there’s high enough crankcase pressure to cause a leak.

Or not.

Thanks for the input!
_________________
1984 Westfailure/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s
AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." — Colin Chapman

Jonathan Weisheit, Race in Peace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3dS7xiFn7I&t=500s

[djkeev]

That hole was to allow atmospheric pressure on the top of the otherwise sealed rubber diaphragm.
As the diaphragm moved that hole vented the sealed top of it.
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[E1]

[E1]

We made it to New Mexico, going just over 1,000 miles from Monday to Wednesday.

We left with full oil and lost *maybe* a half-stick in 1,000 miles, which I’ve found to be normal when the oil starts at the top notch.

The dipstick levels have been inconsistent, and am very curious why... it’s almost as if the oil level in the filter is ranging from full to empty... bizarre.

The oil leak out the forward engine port to the engine top immediately and completely stopped when changing the crankcase breather.

The remnant leak(s) from the engine-to-trans gasket have slowed with every viewing, and are down to one drip at gas stations. Once all that oil’s dripped out, it will soon leave no drips at all.

I never used the ATP oil stop leak.

It is dead clear to me that clogged or blocked-off breathers can cause a mainseal leak. User beware, yours may be next.

Thanks Again to all who helped!
_________________
1984 Westfailure/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s
AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." — Colin Chapman

Jonathan Weisheit, Race in Peace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3dS7xiFn7I&t=500s

[E1]

So… does anyone know how oil can possibly leak out of the access port above the bellhousing, at the forward driver’s side of the engine?

The only way I can surmise this being possible is oil leaking out the mainseal, and traveling vertically up the forward side of the engine before reaching the port… possibly from the spinning of the flywheel…


Does anyone know the specific conditions that can cause too much crankcase pressure?


Thanks for the help so far, but I’m left with more questions than answers.

Though we’re no longer getting oil atop the engine from the port, now we have a leak from the pushrod tubes, and possibly both leaks have a common connection of having too much crankcase pressure.
_________________
1984 Westfailure/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s
AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." — Colin Chapman

Jonathan Weisheit, Race in Peace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3dS7xiFn7I&t=500s

[DanHoug]

[E1]

Thank You, Dan!

I do not think our Digijet setup has an inline hose heater, nor did our prior ‘84… unless I’m confused by where that is. This motor is a 2.1 fitted to all Digijet bits.

The hose from tower to intake is a good silicone one, a year old, and has absolutely no oil beyond a thin film in it — and never has had anything beyond that, either.

Compression good, definitely no piston or ring blowby, if that’s what you meant, engine runs great and beyond these leaks has never used oil — in fact, quite the opposite, happily, until a month ago.

Is it possible to have a leak somewhere that has vacuum, and it’s drawing in air that can’t escape?

Being remote, I may not work on this until getting a new tower, it’s the only element that seemed to be a cause so far. I’m mostly thinking ahead and hope to gather data to work with instead of once things are apart in the desert somewhere.

The leak from having excess oil in the bellhousing has slowed to a tiny spot under the van when parked, and only when being full-hot. I think that leak has totally stopped but there’s still a little left to slowly seep out.

Thanks as Always!
_________________
1984 Westfailure/2.1 Digijet/5.43 Ring & Pinion/Peloquin/D-rated BFG KO2s
AI has spoken to further illiteracy, to steal, to cheat, and to replace humans

"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere." — Colin Chapman

Jonathan Weisheit, Race in Peace:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3dS7xiFn7I&t=500s