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It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

Maybe do a smoke test on the intake air system.
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steve244
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:01 am    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

Synergy Solutions wrote:
Check your AAR, it could be stuck open. Fuel injection corp in northern CA can rebuild the AFM, fuel pump, fuel psi regulator, AAR, and injectors. And they can test the CSV.


Thanks for the reference. I'll be contacting them.

Here's the website if anyone is interested.

https://fuelinjectioncorp.com/about-fic/
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf Twisted Evil
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...
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steve244
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:18 am    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
air cooled vanagons are tuned to the lean from the beginning..
so doesn't take much to get them hurting..

do a search and on here there's a 'hack' for lack of a better term that allows you to dial in the AFR via the T-II sensor with a potentiometer at the dash.

here's a thread.. has helped some..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=248511


Interesting idea. I'll keep it bookmarked as a backup.

Mine has correct AFR above 1500. Below this it's too lean after warming up. Without constant fiddling, I wonder if that effects the whole RPM range? I'll read it in detail today.

I'm leaning towards:
1-replace the AFM. See if it corrects the problem. Hey it's available and not too spendy.

2-send the AFM and controller to FIC referenced above.

Everything is new or bench tested within specs, except for the AFM and controller.
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf Twisted Evil
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...
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steve244
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

Xevin wrote:
Did Brothers do an initial break-in for 20 minutes before they shipped the crate to you? I gotta think they did.


I don't think so. It appeared to only have assembly lube. No discoloration to exhaust ports.

I'm breaking it in as if it's not been run. Break-in oil (Driven BR30). Change after 30 minutes of running. Change to normal oil after 400 miles.
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf Twisted Evil
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...
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steve244
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Maybe do a smoke test on the intake air system.


All new hoses. Brake booster connection is plugged. New intake elbow. Permanently blocked EGR connector. I'll add smoke test to the list if nothing else pans out. It's pretty tight.
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf Twisted Evil
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

If your distributor has a dual vacuum can, put a hose on the nipple which points towards the distributor body and suck on the hose to make sure the can holds vacuum, most will not. If yours leaks, disconnect and plug the hose.
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steve244
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

It's a single vacuum can. New rebuild from sparxwerks. He did the throttle body too.
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf Twisted Evil
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

the T-II sensor is what handles the cold-warm fuel enrichment
it may not be providing a good reading at lower temps
once the T-II is up to a certain ohm output then the ECU looks at the O2 sensor.. (if installed)
w/o an O2 then the ECU goes to 'warm running' mode..

perhaps the T-II is reading too warm too soon..

I presume you have an AFC manual handy

check your TII on page 8
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/vanag...ystems.pdf

steve244 wrote:
danfromsyr wrote:
air cooled vanagons are tuned to the lean from the beginning..
so doesn't take much to get them hurting..

do a search and on here there's a 'hack' for lack of a better term that allows you to dial in the AFR via the T-II sensor with a potentiometer at the dash.

here's a thread.. has helped some..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=248511


Interesting idea. I'll keep it bookmarked as a backup.

Mine has correct AFR above 1500. Below this it's too lean after warming up. Without constant fiddling, I wonder if that effects the whole RPM range? I'll read it in detail today.

I'm leaning towards:
1-replace the AFM. See if it corrects the problem. Hey it's available and not too spendy.

2-send the AFM and controller to FIC referenced above.

Everything is new or bench tested within specs, except for the AFM and controller.

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E1
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

I was just going to mention the Temp II, but had no clue if AC uses them.

We once had the wrong one installed by a “pro” — (was black instead of blue) — and it ran very lean.

You might do what I did, Google the part # and see if it fits your engine. I’d be at least a little surprised if your other new parts are bad.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

E1 wrote:
I was just going to mention the Temp II, but had no clue if AC uses them.

We once had the wrong one installed by a “pro” — (was black instead of blue) — and it ran very lean.

You might do what I did, Google the part # and see if it fits your engine. I’d be at least a little surprised if your other new parts are bad.


The air cooled engines have a TSII sensor which is very problematic, but it usually fails by having a very high resistance which causes a very rich running engine.
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Abscate
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

With a reading that lean, vacuum leak

Smoke test is the way to go, burning leaves make lots of smug smog
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steve244
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:
the T-II sensor is what handles the cold-warm fuel enrichment
it may not be providing a good reading at lower temps
once the T-II is up to a certain ohm output then the ECU looks at the O2 sensor.. (if installed)
w/o an O2 then the ECU goes to 'warm running' mode..

perhaps the T-II is reading too warm too soon..

I presume you have an AFC manual handy

check your TII on page 8
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/vanag...ystems.pdf

steve244 wrote:
danfromsyr wrote:
air cooled vanagons are tuned to the lean from the beginning..
so doesn't take much to get them hurting..

do a search and on here there's a 'hack' for lack of a better term that allows you to dial in the AFR via the T-II sensor with a potentiometer at the dash.

here's a thread.. has helped some..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=248511


Interesting idea. I'll keep it bookmarked as a backup.

Mine has correct AFR above 1500. Below this it's too lean after warming up. Without constant fiddling, I wonder if that effects the whole RPM range? I'll read it in detail today.

I'm leaning towards:
1-replace the AFM. See if it corrects the problem. Hey it's available and not too spendy.

2-send the AFM and controller to FIC referenced above.

Everything is new or bench tested within specs, except for the AFM and controller.


I played with the AFM. I know that's not allowed, but lowering the tension on the spring helped.

The AFR meter is on the bung hole next to the tail pipes. Instructions said that was a no no. It may be registering leaner if it's being polluted by outside air. I'll move it to the other end and see if it's different.

Here's today's video.


Link

_________________
82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf Twisted Evil
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

I would never play with the AFM without 1st analyzing the TII properties


I had one that was loose in it's hole.. that caused some erratic operating
I've forgotten to hook it up.
I've had the spade short to the intake runners
I've had different TIIs have very different readings Rate/curve

with a wideband O2 an adjustable TII is quite nice.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

as mentioned on a lean/leak scenario
that the intake runner 'couplers' if OG braided can easily look OK but allow too much air in.

that the injector seals are often easily overlooked and degraded
that the intake base/head gaskets may be misaligned and allow a gap.

the EGR port/tube

the cold start injector seal.
the seal under the throttle body if OG is often very suspect.

just spit balling to help the search
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steve244
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

Runs good now. Check the video.

TII is new and bench tested within specs using the freezer, fridge and hot water and ratwell's tables.

I went through two TIIs before getting one that worked.

Every gasket and seal is new. All new vacuum hoses and runner connectors. New intake elbow. Rebuilt TB and new gasket. Been collecting parts for two years. The only thing old is the alternator (but I did replace the voltage regulator/brushes) besides the AFM and controller. Injectors are all new, the ones that injector rehab sells with rails.

I also ordered a rebuilt AFM today, but I'm pretty sure I could drive it using the old one after tweaking it. It appeared to have been messed with before I got to it.

But seriously, thanks for all the suggestions.
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf Twisted Evil
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...


Last edited by steve244 on Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Xevin Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

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67rustavenger wrote:
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! Very Happy

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Damn that Xevin... Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

That hurts.
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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf Twisted Evil
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

Have you run this engine for 20 minutes at 2000k rpm yet?
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My God! Xevin and I 100% agree Shocked
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

Nope. Show me a reference for that and I'll read it.

Running at 2000 to splash lube the cam in an American OHV V8 is a thing. Since our cam and hydraulic lifters bathe in oil it's not needed. Just seating the rings and normal operation for 400 miles.

I will be putting wheels on the road and running it under load to seat the rings.

Here's a vid of it running just now.


Link

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82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf Twisted Evil
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...
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Xevin Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss Reply with quote

I pulled that out of my ass to make your life miserable. I thought you were working with a small block Chevy. WTF?
Buy a book FFS. Or listen to someone other then yourself. The kids like to text GFY.

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