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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50360
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Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2024 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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Maybe do a smoke test on the intake air system. |
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steve244 Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022 Posts: 1670 Location: GA
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steve244 Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022 Posts: 1670 Location: GA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:18 am Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
air cooled vanagons are tuned to the lean from the beginning..
so doesn't take much to get them hurting..
do a search and on here there's a 'hack' for lack of a better term that allows you to dial in the AFR via the T-II sensor with a potentiometer at the dash.
here's a thread.. has helped some..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=248511 |
Interesting idea. I'll keep it bookmarked as a backup.
Mine has correct AFR above 1500. Below this it's too lean after warming up. Without constant fiddling, I wonder if that effects the whole RPM range? I'll read it in detail today.
I'm leaning towards:
1-replace the AFM. See if it corrects the problem. Hey it's available and not too spendy.
2-send the AFM and controller to FIC referenced above.
Everything is new or bench tested within specs, except for the AFM and controller. _________________ 82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way... |
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steve244 Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022 Posts: 1670 Location: GA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:32 am Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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Xevin wrote: |
Did Brothers do an initial break-in for 20 minutes before they shipped the crate to you? I gotta think they did. |
I don't think so. It appeared to only have assembly lube. No discoloration to exhaust ports.
I'm breaking it in as if it's not been run. Break-in oil (Driven BR30). Change after 30 minutes of running. Change to normal oil after 400 miles. _________________ 82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way... |
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steve244 Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022 Posts: 1670 Location: GA
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50360
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 9:17 am Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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If your distributor has a dual vacuum can, put a hose on the nipple which points towards the distributor body and suck on the hose to make sure the can holds vacuum, most will not. If yours leaks, disconnect and plug the hose. |
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steve244 Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022 Posts: 1670 Location: GA
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15148 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:03 am Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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the T-II sensor is what handles the cold-warm fuel enrichment
it may not be providing a good reading at lower temps
once the T-II is up to a certain ohm output then the ECU looks at the O2 sensor.. (if installed)
w/o an O2 then the ECU goes to 'warm running' mode..
perhaps the T-II is reading too warm too soon..
I presume you have an AFC manual handy
check your TII on page 8
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/vanag...ystems.pdf
steve244 wrote: |
danfromsyr wrote: |
air cooled vanagons are tuned to the lean from the beginning..
so doesn't take much to get them hurting..
do a search and on here there's a 'hack' for lack of a better term that allows you to dial in the AFR via the T-II sensor with a potentiometer at the dash.
here's a thread.. has helped some..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=248511 |
Interesting idea. I'll keep it bookmarked as a backup.
Mine has correct AFR above 1500. Below this it's too lean after warming up. Without constant fiddling, I wonder if that effects the whole RPM range? I'll read it in detail today.
I'm leaning towards:
1-replace the AFM. See if it corrects the problem. Hey it's available and not too spendy.
2-send the AFM and controller to FIC referenced above.
Everything is new or bench tested within specs, except for the AFM and controller. |
_________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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E1 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013 Posts: 6616 Location: Westfalia, Earth
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:10 am Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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I was just going to mention the Temp II, but had no clue if AC uses them.
We once had the wrong one installed by a “pro” — (was black instead of blue) — and it ran very lean.
You might do what I did, Google the part # and see if it fits your engine. I’d be at least a little surprised if your other new parts are bad. _________________ ‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50360
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 10:59 am Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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E1 wrote: |
I was just going to mention the Temp II, but had no clue if AC uses them.
We once had the wrong one installed by a “pro” — (was black instead of blue) — and it ran very lean.
You might do what I did, Google the part # and see if it fits your engine. I’d be at least a little surprised if your other new parts are bad. |
The air cooled engines have a TSII sensor which is very problematic, but it usually fails by having a very high resistance which causes a very rich running engine. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22677 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 11:45 am Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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With a reading that lean, vacuum leak
Smoke test is the way to go, burning leaves make lots of smug smog _________________ .ssS! |
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steve244 Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022 Posts: 1670 Location: GA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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danfromsyr wrote: |
the T-II sensor is what handles the cold-warm fuel enrichment
it may not be providing a good reading at lower temps
once the T-II is up to a certain ohm output then the ECU looks at the O2 sensor.. (if installed)
w/o an O2 then the ECU goes to 'warm running' mode..
perhaps the T-II is reading too warm too soon..
I presume you have an AFC manual handy
check your TII on page 8
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/vanag...ystems.pdf
steve244 wrote: |
danfromsyr wrote: |
air cooled vanagons are tuned to the lean from the beginning..
so doesn't take much to get them hurting..
do a search and on here there's a 'hack' for lack of a better term that allows you to dial in the AFR via the T-II sensor with a potentiometer at the dash.
here's a thread.. has helped some..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=248511 |
Interesting idea. I'll keep it bookmarked as a backup.
Mine has correct AFR above 1500. Below this it's too lean after warming up. Without constant fiddling, I wonder if that effects the whole RPM range? I'll read it in detail today.
I'm leaning towards:
1-replace the AFM. See if it corrects the problem. Hey it's available and not too spendy.
2-send the AFM and controller to FIC referenced above.
Everything is new or bench tested within specs, except for the AFM and controller. |
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I played with the AFM. I know that's not allowed, but lowering the tension on the spring helped.
The AFR meter is on the bung hole next to the tail pipes. Instructions said that was a no no. It may be registering leaner if it's being polluted by outside air. I'll move it to the other end and see if it's different.
Here's today's video.
Link
_________________ 82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way... |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15148 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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I would never play with the AFM without 1st analyzing the TII properties
I had one that was loose in it's hole.. that caused some erratic operating
I've forgotten to hook it up.
I've had the spade short to the intake runners
I've had different TIIs have very different readings Rate/curve
with a wideband O2 an adjustable TII is quite nice. _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15148 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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as mentioned on a lean/leak scenario
that the intake runner 'couplers' if OG braided can easily look OK but allow too much air in.
that the injector seals are often easily overlooked and degraded
that the intake base/head gaskets may be misaligned and allow a gap.
the EGR port/tube
the cold start injector seal.
the seal under the throttle body if OG is often very suspect.
just spit balling to help the search _________________
Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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steve244 Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022 Posts: 1670 Location: GA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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Runs good now. Check the video.
TII is new and bench tested within specs using the freezer, fridge and hot water and ratwell's tables.
I went through two TIIs before getting one that worked.
Every gasket and seal is new. All new vacuum hoses and runner connectors. New intake elbow. Rebuilt TB and new gasket. Been collecting parts for two years. The only thing old is the alternator (but I did replace the voltage regulator/brushes) besides the AFM and controller. Injectors are all new, the ones that injector rehab sells with rails.
I also ordered a rebuilt AFM today, but I'm pretty sure I could drive it using the old one after tweaking it. It appeared to have been messed with before I got to it.
But seriously, thanks for all the suggestions. _________________ 82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way...
Last edited by steve244 on Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7635
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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_________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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steve244 Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022 Posts: 1670 Location: GA
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7635
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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Have you run this engine for 20 minutes at 2000k rpm yet? _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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steve244 Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2022 Posts: 1670 Location: GA
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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Nope. Show me a reference for that and I'll read it.
Running at 2000 to splash lube the cam in an American OHV V8 is a thing. Since our cam and hydraulic lifters bathe in oil it's not needed. Just seating the rings and normal operation for 400 miles.
I will be putting wheels on the road and running it under load to seat the rings.
Here's a vid of it running just now.
Link
_________________ 82 AC vanagon approx 200K miles (3K are mine).
DD is a 2015 Leaf
Road Trip to Hell (FL 2023)
The Vanagon's drivetrain and chassis restomod thread. Best sung to the tune of I Did It My Way... |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7635
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Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2024 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: It liiiiiiiiiiiiiivesssss |
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I pulled that out of my ass to make your life miserable. I thought you were working with a small block Chevy. WTF?
Buy a book FFS. Or listen to someone other then yourself. The kids like to text GFY.
_________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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