Painting for a idiot

[Nodnol]

Hi I'm trying to learn how to repaint my 72 super beetle, it's got a good bit of rust and is going to need some body work, but I have no idea how to do anything. I really don't want to mess this up, can anyone tell me about the process and what products I need?

[Evil_Fiz]

Many factors will influence your course of action. Some examples are:
- How deep do you want to get into the project?
--- Full strip to bare metal or scuff and spray?
--- Show quality or "Good enough"?
--- Spray at home or rent a booth?
- What equipment and tools do you have?
- What equipment and tools are you willing to buy?
- How long are you willing to take to finish your project?
- What is your budget?

To do all the work at home, at a minimum you will need:
- An air compressor
- Paint gun and painting supplies
- Primer, filler. and paint
- Welder if replacement metal is needed
- Body working tools (hammers, dollies, sanding blocks Etc.)
- Lots of time to spend learning and practicing.

This is an oversimplified reply. More specific questions from you will get better answers from us.

-----
Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68

See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted

[Nodnol]

Ok thank you, I know that I want to use something like vp2050 primer and some of Eastwood's products like ther gide coat and rust killer, but I don't know what kind of body filler or top coat I need, I want to do panel to panel blocking, hopefully that helps keep me from messing it up.

I know I need a da sander to get the paint off, but I don't know how many coats I need to apply and what grit of sand paper I should use.

[esde]

Full stop.
Watch a ton of videos, and talk to as many people that do this for a living/ hobby as you can.
What you are proposing is a huge undertaking. Which is fine, lots of us do it.
BUT, there are tons of projects out there that were started by people with big aspirations like yours, and they sit unfinished. It is doable, but it is a TON of work. And there are so many products, and processes.
It's too easy to get in over your head with bodywork, especially if you've never done it before.
Fix the front fenders, and see what's involved before tearing farther in. If it doesn't scare you then go farther.
_________________
modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[Nodnol]

Alright, but the issue I'm having is that I need to replace the window scrapers because at the moment ever time it rains there's about of inch of standing water in the doors, and I don't want to have to take it apart twice. There's a good bit of rust damage I need to fix like a spot really close to the foam on the back left and some cracking on the right side.

https://youtu.be/G6JpZP3xsd0?si=ErMSU7g2rGhr0MPB

[bomberbob]

There should be drains in the doors, possibly they are blocked. You should not have standing water in the doors. I guess having standing water means they are not full of rust holes (yet).
I believe I see signs of death foam back in the rear quarter. This is repairable, but its a lot of work. There are posts in this forum, and other forums on the samba showing how people have repaired rust damage like this. Your photos do not show some of the other common rust areas, heater channels, floor pans, and that area under the seat where the battery sits.
Window scrapers, there are probably posts with photos on how to replace these as well. This is the place to be if you want to repair your bug yourself, but its going to be a lot of work.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[Nodnol]

I checked the door drains and they where clogged, I'm not sure if it's possible but I would like to keep most of the paint as the Rust is limited to small spots and on some parts like the hood and fenders there's only 1 or 2 spots of rust, I want to go ahead and fix the body damage caused by rust but I don't know what kind of body filler and rust neutralizer to use.

Also if it is possible to keep the old paint then how would I bring back the shine without it being obvious that it's been repainted in spots?

[67ctbug]

What kind of equipment do you have? What you're proposing, for someone with no tools and experience, will take years and probably $10,000. to prep the car and spray it you'll need at least two spray guns, a minimum 60 gallon compressor, DA sander, die grinders, cut-off tools, maybe a belt grinder. Then you need the body hammers, dollies, a welder with gas, tons of vice grips, sanding blocks, sand paper for DA and blocking, etc.
Forget about VP2050, Eastwood products, and panel to panel blocking right now. You'll get so focused on wanting the product the people on TV and Facebook use vs. a product that will get the job done as well if not better. You should be worried about what metal you need to buy. Personally I prefer BASF products (glasurit, RM, Limco), PPG 2050 has great reviews but is not a true epoxy, I prefer a real epoxy and a real high build primer. Admittedly, I've never used the VP2050.
Watching your video, that car has some messed up and spots and YOU WILL end up doing things twice if you've never done this before. You aren't going to like how things turn out and you'll want to redo them. You're going to find tons of different fillers and thigns, avoid Bondo brand. I've used Evercoat, 3M, Upol, Fast Line, and a few others. It's all about the same to me. I like 3M Platinum Plus. I normally use a fiberglass filler over my weld areas to help prevent any pinholes I missed. Body and paint is a big undertaking and there are a ton of products out there to get it done.
_________________
'67 Beetle L41
'74 Westfalia
'69 Plymouth "Adam-12"
'63 Ragtop
'73 914
'72 Dodge Wrecker
Go Cubs!
World Series Champions 2016

[Nodnol]

Right now all I want to do is patch up the rust holes, after that I'll look into painting. But for now all I want is info, would it be possible to "revive" the Old paint l, while still sanding and repainting the spots with surface rust? And would the repainted spots match the original paint?

[Busstom]

I like this place https://www.autobody101.com/forums/
_________________
My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)

[Evil_Fiz]

I was in your shoes a few years ago and will try to summarize my experience for you. My intention is to encourage and show you that what you want is possible, but It is also daunting at times, often frustrating, sometimes depressing, but ultimately rewarding.

Timeline
- purchased the car in 2015-09
- finally had it fully stripped to bare metal in 2018
- finally had my rotisserie designed and built in 2020
- had most of the metalwork done by 2022
- spent 2 years researching the PRIMMER and FILLERprocess at the SPI forum
- FINALLY got the car in epoxy primer in 2024-05

- So far I:
- spent about $4000 on tools, equipment, and supplies
- spent ~40 hrs metalworking one of my doors to remove dents and a crease
- Spent ~30 hrs designing and building my rotisserie
- spent 2 days building a makeshift paint booth in my garage
- bought most of my tools at Harbor Freight with good results
- taught myself to weld sheet metal and did repairs

All the advice provided in the ptrvious posts is spot on and worth adopting. You CAN do this. You CAN learn what you don't know. You CAN finish your project. Make a high-level plan, break it up into smaller, attainable projects, tackle only ONE sub-project at a time, and Stick with it until you are content with the results you achieve.

The best resource I found for painting and body-working advice is the Southern Polyurethane Inc forum(http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php). SPI also makes outstanding products at very reasonable prices. Everything I know about paint and bodywork was learned over two years on that forum. I used SPI epoxy as primer, and will use more of their products as my project progresses. The best advice I can provide is to ask questions, do your research, and look for three different sources that agree with the process you want to employ for any given task. Don't listen to anything I say unless you find at least two other people/sources to corroborate it.

It will take more time than you think, will cost more than you budgeted, and will be more rewarding than you ever imagined.

-----
Emil
_________________
“…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68

See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted

[Nodnol]

I plan on sanding and grinding out the rust spots and putting some primer on it to hold off the rust till I get around to painting it. That should be fine right?

[Evil_Fiz]

[bomberbob]

I have used several quarts of master series, I love it. On my beetle, and then on my Jetta. Coverage, sandability, all that is top notch, the only thing I don't like about it is once you open the can and expose ambient air to the contents of the can, it starts to cure.
I actually have a brand new quart in my garage, when I open it and pour some out, I am going to use one of those food sealers with the plastic bag to seal the remains in the can, and pull a vacuum on the bag, and seal. I hope this will keep whats left in the can from curing and going to waste.
_________________
1968 Beetle torn apart again
1990 Jetta GLI megasquirted, burning E85 (currently in storage)
2004 Jetta turbo GLI
Marion, Iowa

[Evil_Fiz]

[tehillah1]

[viiking]

The simplest way after reapplying the Ospho/phosphoric acid is to just wash with water COPIOUSLY with a bit of a scrub with scotchbrite pad. Not just a rinse, a good wash. Use a hose , pressure washer or whatever running water you have.

Once you’ve gone over the car then dry it off completely but wear gloves to prevent oils from your hands contaminating the surface. Use a garden blower to get the water out of the seams then follow up with a heat gun, hair dryer and make sure the surface is DRY.

Because the surface is completely clean it is now reactive and it WILL flash rust. How quickly it does so depends on the temperature and humidity in your area so you need to paint within a couple of hours or so of doing this step. If you cant achieve this then consider doing smaller parts of the car and just repeat the acid wash, water wash and complete dry then paint immediately.

Now you could go to the extent of washing the car with an alkali such as bicarbonate of soda to more quickly neutralise the acid but you still have then to wash off the residual neutralised sodium salts. So IMO it’s just easy to wash with lots of water not to mention it’s cheaper,

Most epoxy paint suppliers will say it is not recommended to paint with epoxy over an Ospho/phosphoric acid treated surface. But they need to say that because MANY MANY people just don’t read the instructions and the manufacturers have to deal with the bad press that comes with failed paint surfaces, so out of a degree of caution they say “don’t”.

There’s an interesting experiment on the SPI forum of someone who divided a hood into four and painted over un-neutralised, neutralised, smooth and rough sanded metal to see the difference. From memory he found no effect. I’ll try and find the link separately.
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[viiking]

I can't find the article I was talking about, but this one is worth reading.

http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php?threads/how-to-neutralize-ospho.3973/
_________________
1968 1500 RHD Lotus White Beetle since birth. In the hospital for major surgery
1966 Lancia Flavia Pininfarina Coupe - in the waiting room
Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[tehillah1]

This is exactly the information I've been looking for. The SPI forums are a deep resource...Thanks all for pointing me in the correct direction.

[Evil_Fiz]

I was out of town so sorry for the delay in responding. The post above does an excellent job of answering your questions. I will add to it in-line.