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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 613
Location: KS
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 Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:00 am Post subject: misery: diagnostic suggestions please |
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I think it is the fuel system, but I am stumped. Ran a week ago. Now, nope.
It will try and start with a squirt of ether in either or both carbs. Runs for about a second and then dies. Turns over easily.
Dual carbs Solex with stock engine. Overhauled carbs about 2 years ago.
Removed Sparkplugs are sooty, but not wet when removed. Gap is correct
Fuel flows from Gas line from tank before stock pump and Pump does push fuel to carbs. No idea as to pressure.
Have not removed a carb yet to inspect. That is the next step.
Ideas or suggestions gladly taken.
_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum |
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Braukuche
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2004
Posts: 11204
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2024 9:52 am Post subject: Re: misery: diagnostic suggestions please |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
I think it is the fuel system, but I am stumped. Ran a week ago. Now, nope.
It will try and start with a squirt of ether in either or both carbs. Runs for about a second and then dies. Turns over easily.
Dual carbs Solex with stock engine. Overhauled carbs about 2 years ago.
Removed Sparkplugs are sooty, but not wet when removed. Gap is correct
Fuel flows from Gas line from tank before stock pump and Pump does push fuel to carbs. No idea as to pressure.
Have not removed a carb yet to inspect. That is the next step.
Ideas or suggestions gladly taken. |
Maybe I’m missing something but sounds like your fuel pump is bad if no fuel is coming out of the pump.
_________________
Go Reds! Smash state!
Retirement is here!
1960 double cab
1960 Baja Bug
1963 stretched double cab
1962 Golde sunroof Ghia
1963 356 B coupe
1963 Notchback
1967 21 window less rusty now
1989 Westfalia |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 613
Location: KS
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:16 am Post subject: Re: misery: diagnostic suggestions please |
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| Braukuche wrote: |
| Ossipon wrote: |
I think it is the fuel system, but I am stumped. Ran a week ago. Now, nope.
It will try and start with a squirt of ether in either or both carbs. Runs for about a second and then dies. Turns over easily.
Dual carbs Solex with stock engine. Overhauled carbs about 2 years ago.
Removed Sparkplugs are sooty, but not wet when removed. Gap is correct
Fuel flows from Gas line from tank before stock pump and Pump does push fuel to carbs. No idea as to pressure.
Have not removed a carb yet to inspect. That is the next step.
Ideas or suggestions gladly taken. |
Maybe I’m missing something but sounds like your fuel pump is bad if no fuel is coming out of the pump. |
When I run the starter, fuel is discharged from the stock pump. But, without running I cannot determine pressure. Good idea though. I think I will replace the fuel pump with my Brosol spare before pulling a carb.
_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23148
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2024 10:31 am Post subject: Re: misery: diagnostic suggestions please |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
| Braukuche wrote: |
| Ossipon wrote: |
I think it is the fuel system, but I am stumped. Ran a week ago. Now, nope.
It will try and start with a squirt of ether in either or both carbs. Runs for about a second and then dies. Turns over easily.
Dual carbs Solex with stock engine. Overhauled carbs about 2 years ago.
Removed Sparkplugs are sooty, but not wet when removed. Gap is correct
Fuel flows from Gas line from tank before stock pump and Pump does push fuel to carbs. No idea as to pressure.
Have not removed a carb yet to inspect. That is the next step.
Ideas or suggestions gladly taken. |
Maybe I’m missing something but sounds like your fuel pump is bad if no fuel is coming out of the pump. |
When I run the starter, fuel is discharged from the stock pump. But, without running I cannot determine pressure. Good idea though. I think I will replace the fuel pump with my Brosol spare before pulling a carb. |
While pressure is important....as long as its not TOO MUCH and causing leakage/overflow of the float bowls....it does not matter. If you are pushing fuel to the carb bowls, it should start. If pressure is too high it will eventually flodd. If pressure is to low it will eventually starve and stall.
Question, does either of your carbs have an idle cut off solenoid down near the base with a single wire? If so, that could fail and prevent starting.
Make sure your timing is correct. Make sure your adavnce works. When your timing or advance is off enough to not work with normal fuel...it can try to run on starting fluid. Ray |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 613
Location: KS
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:37 am Post subject: Re: misery: diagnostic suggestions please |
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So, I think it is the carbs and fuel starvation now and likely in the float. Here is why.
I manually tested the electronic cutoff by removing and reinserting the spade connector. I could hear the solenoid engage and disengage.
I tried to run the engine with a pipette and gas while I used the remote starter button. Dribbling in just gasoline, I was able to get it running for a bit longer, although uneven as I was only putting gas on the 3-4 cylinder side.
Here is the kicker though which makes me think float issues. When I removed the gas line from the pump on the carburetor side. I was spritzed with gasoline.
I was getting pressure from the pump for sure. I reattached and immediately tried to start it. It almost started. But when I took the gas line off again, there was a smaller spritz
After I eat lunch, I am going to take the top off the carbs and check the floats.
_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 613
Location: KS
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2024 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: misery: diagnostic suggestions please |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
So, I think it is the carbs and fuel starvation now and likely in the float. Here is why.
I manually tested the electronic cutoff by removing and reinserting the spade connector. I could hear the solenoid engage and disengage.
I tried to run the engine with a pipette and gas while I used the remote starter button. Dribbling in just gasoline, I was able to get it running for a bit longer, although uneven as I was only putting gas on the 3-4 cylinder side.
Here is the kicker though which makes me think float issues. When I removed the gas line from the pump on the carburetor side. I was spritzed with gasoline.
I was getting pressure from the pump for sure. I reattached and immediately tried to start it. It almost started. But when I took the gas line off again, there was a smaller spritz
After I eat lunch, I am going to take the top off the carbs and check the floats. |
UPDATE: There was no fuel in the left Carb. So it is either the float valves or the floats. Getting ready to test both. I do have the old valves. but hope it is not the float
_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23382
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2024 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: misery: diagnostic suggestions please |
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| Ossipon wrote: |
| Ossipon wrote: |
So, I think it is the carbs and fuel starvation now and likely in the float. Here is why.
I manually tested the electronic cutoff by removing and reinserting the spade connector. I could hear the solenoid engage and disengage.
I tried to run the engine with a pipette and gas while I used the remote starter button. Dribbling in just gasoline, I was able to get it running for a bit longer, although uneven as I was only putting gas on the 3-4 cylinder side.
Here is the kicker though which makes me think float issues. When I removed the gas line from the pump on the carburetor side. I was spritzed with gasoline.
I was getting pressure from the pump for sure. I reattached and immediately tried to start it. It almost started. But when I took the gas line off again, there was a smaller spritz
After I eat lunch, I am going to take the top off the carbs and check the floats. |
UPDATE: There was no fuel in the left Carb. So it is either the float valves or the floats. Getting ready to test both. I do have the old valves. but hope it is not the float |
I've found the "float valve" is usually the culprit, as I've had that happen on 4 different carbs I've rebuilt. In the end I used an old bug single carb float valve to fix the problem (screws right in). It's not the best solution, but it does work. I'd probably send the carbs to VolksBlitz and have him go thru them. I've heard nothing but good things from his rebuilds.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Ossipon
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2021
Posts: 613
Location: KS
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2024 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: misery: diagnostic suggestions please |
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Resolved: At least for now.
Like Bobnotch said; the float valve. I did the basic test. Remove, turn right side up, turn right side down. The left valve stuck immediately. The right float valve did it after three rotations. I had two good valves that I had saved as a just in case. Stuck them in and it fired up almost immediately.
That said, I HATE opening up a carb to get at the bowl when installed. It has always be a last resort thing for me. The 32 PDSITs are really very simple. Almost as simple as a 28 PICT-1. But, dirt from a VW compartment is so easy to contaminate the bowl.
Thanks to all that read and offered advice. I just needed that second voice.
_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --
VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum |
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Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 23034
Location: Northwest of Normal
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| Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2024 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: misery: diagnostic suggestions please |
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Gang:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/371020045299
I bought 20 of these and they are the real deal with real NOS German Solex needle valves. I have bought tons of Porsche parts from this seller over the last decade and never a disappointment. I think he buys out warehouses. He also knows what he's doing. These are priced cheap enough to buy just to have on hand.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
Those who can- do.
Those who can't? Subaru. |
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