engine health unknowns - how to get warm fuzzies

[burnyourkids]

Howdy folks, new vanagon owner here. I'm driving a '91 MV (2.1L, 4 spd) that's in pretty decent shape by my estimate. Since buying in October I've replaced the plastic coolant pipes with SS, a few tune-up related jobs, and fixed a handful of broken parts unrelated to the van's ability to drive. Nothing (besides the high-mileage engine) stands out as being on its last leg, about to fall apart, old stock parts that NEED replacing, etc. Maybe the trans... anyway.

What's weighing on my mind is the health of this engine. I'm planning on quite a bit of road tripping this spring/summer starting in the next week or so, involving a drive 1700 miles from home. My plan has been to get an idea of how much life is left in this thing by checking oil pressure. Obviously wouldn't tell me everything but certainly better than nothing. I went to go do that today but I can't get the tin off the engine to get at the low pressure sensor due to some corroded bolts. The two lower bolts come off easily. The upper bolts (running in the direction of the van) are stuck. One of them looks like it's welded on. Beyond my ability/patience to remove right now.

Info on the engine: 2.1L wbx with ~230k miles. Rebuilt at some point but the PO does not know exactly when. Slight oil leak, possibly from the drain plug but maybe from the rear crankshaft seal, hard to tell. PO said "no leaks" when I bought it and I did not see signs of leaking when I was looking it over.

Basically I'm just trying to get an idea of how much headache to expect in the near future. All you kind folks have a much better feel for what these machines can do and at what ages/mileages.

My options at this point:

1. Cut the tin off the engine so I can reach the low pressure sensor and check the oil pressure like normal. Continue as planned depending on results. Bolt the tin back on... somehow?

2. Patch everything back up and set sail as is. Mentally/financially/logistically prepare for the worst while on this trip. Not fun but I would just avoid going 50 miles down a remote road with no cell reception.

3. Take it to a shop and lose my diy gold star for the day. Getting it in somewhere in the next week might be tricky.

I may be thick but I had an idea of what I was getting into with vanagons. If y'all can give me some feedback somewhere on the spectrum between "you're a moron, your engine's probably about to explode, change your plans" and "fuck it, have fun while you can, prepare to have your heart broken" it would go a long way in helping me get a better feel for this van. I expect many of you have been in similar situations and feel wiser and more experienced because of them. Please share your thoughts

[jlrftype7]

A picture or two would help. Hoepfully, when the 2.1 was rebuilt, it got tight enough clearances, and has maintained them, so you're good to go. And a change of the Connecting Rod hardware. Hard to say, and doesn't sound like much information from the previous owner on the engine anyway...
MAPP gas can be your friend for rusted hardware, but not sure about your "welded' comment on the remaining hardware. That's why a picture or two of your struggles would help.
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[bobbyblack]

I believe the tin is bolted on with the exhaust on the two that you are mentioning as 'welded' looking... I would not touch those if that is the case, unless you can be also ready to pull the engine, and get the exhaust bolt/studs replaced... Not something I would touch in your exact position. The tin is mostly useful to keep the pushrod tubes from getting damaged, which is usually only likely when 'offroading' where big chunks of crap are flying around, or you go over big sticks or rocks. I don't keep mine on anymore. Once they come off, they stay off. I'd say cut the tin, get the oil pressure information you need and be done.

You don't mention much about the extent of other things you've done other than that you've done a few. Those few things certainly should be an assessment of the fuel lines. If older than 7 years, that is probably something you should consider getting done soon. Also, the transaxle, if the same one that came with your rig from the factory, probably won't leave you dead in the water from the 3/4 slider problem earlier ones had. However, you might consider a transaxle oil change if you have not yet done so. Just be sure to find, and be able to loosen the FILL port prior to draining the oil from the drain port.
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[MarkWard]

1700 miles is not that far. I’d check my fluid levels, bring a gallon of coolant, spare belts, assortment of metric hand tools, Bentley manual and a couple qts of oil. Make sure your Triple A is current and drive as much local stuff in the mean time. There are some other solutions for pushrod tube protection. I would not attempt to unbolt the shield nuts under the exhaust studs/bolts. I’ve seen both. Snap one of those and you won’t be going anywhere soon. Save that for when you replace the exhaust. If you use a cutoff wheel, cut mid point and you could weld them together later or drill both ends and add a removable bracket. I prefer to have the tubes protected. I installed some new stainless GW ones that are designed to be removed for an owner.

As far as fuzzy feeling. Takes me a day on the road to chill out. Important never say out loud how well the van is running. Best to just think it. Save the praise for when you are pulling into the driveway.

[PDXWesty]

Driving as much as you can around town the month before a trip will help build your confidence. You'll shake out any little issues. Other than that, you never know what's going to happen no matter how much maintenance you've done. Drive it, have fun, don't worry about the engine until it gives you something to worry about. Just always have a plan, like AAA premium for towing, and enjoy.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[VicVan]

As Bobby said, fuel lines if it hasn't been done.
Install an oil pressure gauge for sure. If not, at least check correct operation of the stock oil pressure warning system (buzzing + LED). Check Bentley for testing procedure.

Watch your coolant level, in both tanks. See if and how it evolves.

You could take compressions too, to get a remote idea of how the heads are doing.

Finally, change your fuel lines.

Nice username, by the way!
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'90 Little Blue Truck, 2WD auto, FAS GenV 2.0 NA (AVH)

[Abscate]

[sanchius]

[michaelasnider]

Rather than trying to get at the OP Sensor between the pushrod tubes, get a sandwich adaptor that goes between the oil filter and cooler. Will be quick and easy.

Oil pressure and a warm compression test will give you a pretty good idea of where you're at.

Picture of my sandwich adaptor, with pressure and temp senders:

Gauges (you could just do a temp gauge set up to get an idea of where you're at before the trip):

[dobryan]

Here is the oil filter sandwich kit from Vanagain. I have it and it works just fine.

https://www.vanagain.com/product/oil-pressure-gauge-kit-for-all-waterboxer-vanagon
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[zerotofifty]

If the oil leaks from drain plug, well that is an easy fix, do it. might as well change the oil too seeing as you apparently have no clue to how old the oil is. close examination of the oil and filter contents is a clue to engine health. if the main crank seal is leaking it may ruin the clutch.
at anyrate clean the engine then drive to see where the leak is from
check the brake fluid too, change if it is discolored, oh heck flush it all to be safe, clutch fluid too
the coolant need be replaced every two year or so to avoid the leak prone head issues in these vans.

dont cut away the underside tin if you wont be able to reinstall. The tin serves a critical function of keeping road debris from denting or puncturing the delicate pushrod tubes.
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Sorry About That Chief.

Give Peace a Chance.

Words to live by.

[bobbyblack]

While we wait for the OP to get back to us... (account showing last logged on yesterday, not that they couldn't have looked without logging on)

The oil leak from the drain plug, I've seen that with a forgotten crush washer, or having re-used a crush-washer. If it is that easy, whew.

The description of the possibility of a main seal leak being identified as possibly at the drain plug said to my inquiring mind "that sounds like he means the pulley end", so.. if that were the case, I wasn't thinking about the transaxle end of the engine. But ya, I've had a trip get delayed multiple days from a seal in the engine to transmission section of the drivetrain, that is for sure. It is absolutely no fun to end up needing a new clutch/pressure plate and flywheel due to clutch slipping from a soaked clutch disk and cracking the flywheel too. BTDT, no fun. But, we had the engine out, found the culprit, found a parts place only an hour's bike ride away, and got back on the road in about 36 hours. But, that was with us EXPECTING to pull the engine on the road, all tools onboard, and having been through MANY similar experiences with other old VW's.

As for the pushrod tin... well, I can't quite remember if there would be space enough to cut the tin in an arc around just the oil pressure switch, depends on how much the tin can be pulled down after the lower bolts are out I guess. Tin Snips might fit without hitting the pushrod tubes, I don't know. BUT, I agree, the stock tubes are fragile. My remark that I don't run with the metal pushrod covers needs an asterisk, I guess. I run the spring loaded replacements that were pointed out to me by a well respected member here. I've picked the wrong ones before going to the source, as it were, of which ones work best... The ones I was steered to are something like $100 "Jaycee from CB" for a 1600cc beetle engine, you got to install them backwards to accommodate the different sized holes on head and block of the WBX, though. They come in multiple color options for a 'cool factor'... doesn't impact the performance, but its something... Ability to re-use them is the real reason. Stock works best when you can, as far as I've heard.

Here is what I ordered:

https://empius.com/products/leak-proof-pushrod-tubes-red-2/
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch

[burnyourkids]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. Some questions were asked of other general maintenance done to this van, so here's an incomprehensive list:

Fuel lines & injector seal (in the last year, by PO)
Water pump (2021)
Drive axles (PO)
Front brake lines (2017)
Fuel filter (2017)
New suspension, upper ball joints, UCA bushings, alignment (2016)
Transmission fluid "refresh" (2016)
New SS coolant pipes & coolant (me, last month)
New 2AWG transmission ground strap & 8AWG engine ground strap, cleaned a few other ground locations (me)
I had to take the whole dash apart and the front heater out to replace a wiper post lol.

As well as sparkplugs, oil changes, belts, some coolant hoses, other small stuff. Pretty reasonably taken care of I think.


Re: getting to the low-pressure sensor, I'm going to leave the pushrod cover on for now. I frequent rocky roads and I don't think I'd feel great having fragile parts exposed if I were to hack the thing off today, not having a good way to get it back on.

The sandwiched manifold deal is really cool. I think I'll do that as an upgrade sometime soon. I found this video which makes it look like the pushrod cover does not need to be removed to make room for the sender units or wires or anything. The orientation of Michael's had me a little worried for a sec that I would need to take the thing off anyway. https://www.vanagain.com/product/oil-filter-sandwich-adapter

[dobryan]

Be very careful with that drain plug. It does not take much torque to break things.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[PDXWesty]

You can also get nylon washers at any flaps that will seal the plug well. 14 mm I think. Maybe someone can confirm.
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89 Westy 2.1 Auto

[vanis13]

[dhaavers]

FWIW: Hot oil pressure is critical, and you’re well into the danger zone on mileage for an “unknown” engine.

[dhaavers]

[michaelasnider]

[bobbyblack]

Well... y'all KNOW there is a difference in electric oil pressure testing and hydraulic oil pressure testing, right? AND to boot, you know that the electric kind can tell you different results based on the wire you run, and how long of a run it is, right?

I'm not saying do or do not get one vs. the other, but do know that a "real" one will give you "real" results. After verifying that, you can then use the other kind for your dash instrument of choice and have a good guess of how close it is, compared.

My next advice would be to get the relocation kit from Rocky Jennings of Wallawalla Washington. RJE Enterprises. Cut your tin for that, its a tiny little cut, and then you got your hookups all handy on top of the engine. Super guy, super simple setup, and you can opt to use a hydraulic oil pressure tester up there too, much more easily, and more accessible than underneath. He seems to know quite a lot about our engines
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'87 Westy 'Flossie','86 Westy 'R1','86 tintop GL - Subi2.2 'J2','83.5 stock tintop L 'ZoomBus','74 Karmann Ghia, '63 Notch