Engine Off Center After Install - ’63 Bug (Photos)

[OldSchoolVW's]

Before pulling the engine, everything was centered. After reinstalling the engine this afternoon, I found it was off center (see photos). The engine was out for a rebuild and new muffler (a straight stock engine rebuild, no mods). While the engine was out I replaced the rear transmission mounts and throw out bearing. At first I thought it was just the way the muffler was mounted, but I checked the engine compartment and found the gap between the tin and body on the left side was much bigger than the gap on the right side, so the whole engine appears to be cocked to the right. I tried loosening the lower transmission mount bolts to see if I could get the engine to shift a bit to the left, but no improvement. The engine and transmission are original to the car and fit straight before the engine was pulled. What should I be checking and adjusting to correct (or at least improve) this alignment? BTW, I’m planning to use the foam bus style seal, so I need at least a 1/4” gap to squeeze it in.

Thanks for your help!

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Tom

"Following distance is proportional to IQ."

"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller

"But I also have to say, for the umpty-umpth time, that life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death, that's all." William Goldman

'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback

[WrennMetallWerks]

Hey there. Sorry to hear about your issue…. Is it possible that it was like this previously and it just wasn’t noticed until you put the motor back in the car ?
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[OldSchoolVW's]

[Busstom]

Hmmm, weird problem. Your new rear mounts look normal from the pics, and the only way I could see a mount cocking the whole works like that is if you'd changed the front mount, with one that had some anomalous stud positioning, thereby cocking the tranny almost like a rudder would steer a boat...but you didn't change the front mount.

I know this seems like an absurd question, but are you certain the engine is mated fully and flush with the transaxle housing? That's the only thing that jumps to mind at the moment, I can't imagine some stubborn rear mounts could even move in that axis, the only way I can see that is if the M18 holes in the cradle were slotted left/right.
.
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My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)

[Stockholm VW]

The only variable in this equation seems to be the transmission mounts. I’d start there.
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1966 Volkswagen 1300 Sedan (now 1641), 6 volt, L456 Ruby Red, Platinum leatherette.

[richparker]

Agreed on the mounts. How come you didn’t change the front mount? Whose mounts did you use?

I’d but the CB mounts and change all 3 of them out.

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/6212.htm
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[OldSchoolVW's]

[OldSchoolVW's]

[richparker]

^I have them on my ‘65.
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Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build

[aquifer]

Interesting problem, and I agree that it’s probably the mounts causing the bell housing to sit off to one side slightly.

I think I would find a center point on the bell housing and a consistent place on each side of the car to measure against. That would tell you if the back of the transmission is cocked off to the side a little bit. I suppose the measurements might not be definitive in an of themselves because the spot on the car you’re measuring against could be off kilter, but if the measurements are consistent with what you’re seeing from the tail pipes, then it’s a pretty good indicator that the bell housing is off center.

I’m glad you posted this as I will soon be reinstalling my transmission, complete with new mounts. I’ll be sure to try to find some way to measure it to make sure the bell housing is in the “center” of the car laterally - as a starting point anyway.

Edited to add: if the measurements indicate that the bell housing is off to the side like you think, I wonder if loosening the two large bracket bolts and giving it a shove might be enough to fix the problem. Measure it again, then tighten everything up.
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Current hobby vehicles:
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[McFunzeepants]

I thought only weird stuff like this happened to me...

Lots of good advice here on the TheSamba.

It's ether the motor /trans being off center or it's the body right?

To tease out variables, you might want to:
- Reinstall the old rear trans mounts to see if anything changed?
-If the old mounts are too far gone, flip the current mounts from left to right- anything changed?
-Any cracks in the front nose cone mount?
-Does the shift linkage / shift coupler look straight when you look at in the tunnel?
- Is the trans cradle centered on the horns?

[OldSchoolVW's]

[OldSchoolVW's]

Okay, it looks like we have a smoking gun. The left trans mount is definitely sitting farther rearward in the cradle than the right mount. I don't recall seeing any markings on the mounts to suggest that they needed to be oriented a particular way.

So out comes the engine. I'll start by turning the left mount 180 degrees and see if it sits like the right mount. Hopefully this is all it takes. Stay tuned ..

_________________
Tom

"Following distance is proportional to IQ."

"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller

"But I also have to say, for the umpty-umpth time, that life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death, that's all." William Goldman

'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback

[viiking]

Is it my eyes or the angle of the last two photos?

If you draw a straight line between the centreline of bolts on the second last photo and compare it to the last photo does the line of the "L" bracket in the last photo not look like it lines up with the outside of the bolt not the centre of the bolt?

Could just be the photo though.
_________________
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Discharged: 1983 Vanagon, 1974 1800 Microbus,1968 Low Light,1968 Type 3

[Busstom]

[rcooled]

[OldSchoolVW's]

I appreciate all the thinking and input.

So the engine is out and all of the bolts and nuts for the trans mounts are removed. I guess the next step would be to remove the cradle, pull the mounts check and reinstall as Busstom did to minimize any offset. I don't recall if the holes for the cradle mounting bolts (to the fork) are oversized or slotted to allow for any lateral adjustment, but if so, I can shift it a bit to the left. I think I'll leave the lower bolts for the trans mounts out when I reinstall the engine. The trans can only pivot on the front mount, so if I can get the engine into the proper position, I should be able to see how well the holes in the cradle and the holes in the trans mounts line up. If they're too far off, the only solution I see would be to drill out these holes so I can install the bolts while the engine is in the correct position, right? I don't particularly like the idea of drilling out these holes, but aftermarket parts usually don't fit like the originals and don't leave us with many good options for making them work. Thoughts and opinions on this plan are welcome.
_________________
Tom

"Following distance is proportional to IQ."

"If you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do." Warren Miller

"But I also have to say, for the umpty-umpth time, that life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death, that's all." William Goldman

'63 Beetle Sedan
'69 Beetle Sunroof
'70 Beetle Sedan
'73 Type 3 Fastback

[Busstom]

I'm just brainstorming some things that I would check if I was in that predicament...if you have a 24" level (or other rigid, trusty straightedge), you can place it across the bellhousing flange and just eyeball if it seems parallel with the firewall. Of course, the puffy nature of the tarboard might obscure the view of a lateral line on the firewall.

The other thing I'd be tempted to do is drop a plumb bob from a centerpoint on the body and let the bob hang in front of the tranny input shaft, that might show you if/how much it's skewed. For a hanging point on the body, you might use the bracket that is for latching the decklid spring into.

The M18 holes in the cradle are usually pretty snug and won't allow much sideward adjustment at all, not enough to help your situation, yours is really off. Hopefully it's something with the mounts (fingers crossed emoji here).

By the way, when I said I noticed an offset on the WW mounts, it was slight, I mean very slight, such that it should be negligible in the scheme of things.

By the way #2, in this pic below, the space between the tray (shelf) and the 3-4 tin looks pretty much parallel (as did the 1-2 side), I would think those lines should be divergent if the tranny was truly skewed/cocked, making this quandary all the more puzzling.

_________________
My name's Steve and it's pronounced "Bust 'em" (cuz people think I'm Tom)

[aquifer]

[Ovally]

Is the marking in the center of the transmission carrier in line with the center of the lower rib of the transmission?
If not, the gearbox and engine will be off center.

Example is from a split case transmission but also applies to a later transmission.

Regards.
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