1984 1.25" steel to 1.5"coolant line replacement / adventure

[gt0954a]

So I bought the 1.5" RMW (vancafe) 1985 1.5 kit to install on my 84 vanagon. -- I am restoring and upgrading it.

I just wanted to document here the challenges. and successes. I reviewed the old and new gowesty videos. It looked like a pain, but do-able.

So for a 1984 you NEED to remove the fuel tank. and while its out you might as well renew that.

Step 1a. Remove fuel tank. --side quest figure out how to get gas out. drop tank smell gas in garage for weeks.

Step 1b. Drain coolant


Step 2. remove front rad hoses, remove rear coolant hoses.
Step 2b. grab bucket. drain more coolant.. wet again.

Step 3. Fight with steel lines to get them out. Find out that it can't be pulled out because of rear brake e-cable.

Step 4. Cut perfectly good coolant pipes..
Step 4b. grab bucket, drain more coolant.. wet .. again. floor wet too.

Step 5. Lay out pipes write on them which one is which.

Step 6. slide pipes up in. test fit all

Step 7. Realize that you mixed up passenger and driver side front and back. start over

Step 8. Go have a beer or two. come back tomorrow

Step 9. get all lined up. -- notice that the hole in the center cross member is really small as compared to the one in the video. -- this is problem for tomorrow me.

Step 10. get it all lined up and then try to fit them in the back cutouts.

Step 11. remove passenger side tin. Go wash face lots of dirt in face and eyes.

Step 12. Another day.. more beer.

Step 13. Try and fit rear pipes in new exposed hole. s#@$ the holes are too small.

Step 14. Bend center separator toward front of car. .. dammit now still too small. bend tip toward back, better. Still doesnt fit. make a few small cuts. and bend toward rear

Step 15. Curse again.. think this would be way easier on a lift.

Step 16. Fight with heater hoses. F -it where is my hose cutter.
Step 16b. grab bucket. cut hoses. dammit wet again.

Step 17. Every thing seems to be in place.
Step 17b. dammit clamps that hold coolant pipes are too small.

Step 18. Order coolant clamps
https://campwestfalia.com/vanagon-coolant-pipe-mounting-bracket-set/

Step 19. So glad I have a creeper. this multi- day project is out of hand.. Mow grass

Step 20. Check front back alignment. WTF.. the front pipes stick out waaaay to much doesnt match new rad hoses from gowesty
https://gowesty.com/products/radiator-coolant-hose-kit-left-right?variant=41426750406821

Step 21. Check alignemnts. crap forgot to push hoses on joining silcon hose. New exersize. on back pull pipes together. .. Crap one hose slid in one didnt. Remove pipe, wrestle with silicon hose and stainless pipe for 2 long. Get beer.

Step 22. New day. better attititude. re-testfitting. shove joining hose on clamp so it doesnt slide again. Shove together.

Step 23. More test fitting. ok. pipes in right postions, 1" gap between pipes with silicon hose for flexi needs. Start shoving to fit.. Dammit -- what is that. The brake line is in the way.

Side quest --
Step 24. Brake line -- this is going to get mashed. how was it held. oh there was one part of one clip holding it in place. This should be easy.. search up brake clip.. NLA -- what? ok off to the
https://webautocats.com/en-us/etka/volkswagen/va/4/066000/
etka directions unclear. .after much searching I found that it was #10.. well I'll just order 5 of them. I'm sure the ekta is lying.
https://gowesty.com/products/brake-line-holder?variant=41426699813029

Installed them .. damn good thing i ordered 5 needed 5.. Oh there is a new one I need to. that would be number 2 in the picture. I can proceed withouth that one. it is not in the way.

Side quest Complete -ish

Step 25. Back to the campwestfalia clamps.. these things are nice. Nice shapes cleanly de-burred. large screws with good directions. Im going to need to drill some more holes.. 4mm drill. Dammit. My drill set doesnt have that one anymore. oh well this 3.5mm is close enough -- No they are US, but I'm blind and cant read that crap anymore. I busted out my digital calipers to check. Get the back one roughly in place.. slide the pipes forward so everything is easy to manipulate. Damn this is tight. brake hard line on one side and power steering hard lines on the other. lets drill one hole. and test

Step 26. Pipes are no longer falling on my head repeatedly. now check front to back. up, down back forth.. ok lined up. The front are close.. maybe 2" to far forward. Check the back. Ok I see they are proud of the rear tin holder. crawl under.. slide it back. Everything good.

Step 27. Attempt 1 at getting pipes close to crossmember. Shove .. fight WTF. shove forward. pipes come clear of tin holder. dammit it a whole diameter above in the holder.
Attempts 2-10 deleted.

Step 28. Put front clamp on. get crap in face -- again. I really should have washed this first. High on gas fumes. Done for the day.

Side quest -- Fuel tank
Order parts from multiple places.
* rubber grommets -- local VW shop
* fuel tank level indicator -- local VW shop
* new hosing for venting -- amazon gates barricade (225 psi) .. it is Teflon lined.. long story.
* old RMW aluminum cross bar barbs -- free came on van
* crimp clamps at tool
* cut assemble, gas fumes mostly gone. Success.
Side quest complete.

Step 29. Screw it. I'll make a new rear bracket allowing for the height Variation.
* Local Hardware store -- nope
* Home Depot again.. Aluminum bar stock, get 4mm drill bit on hex bit adapter. I needed an extension. to reach the front.

Step 30.. Using newly acquired hex head mounted drill bit re-drill holes in front for front mount. Balancing act for hard brake-line and shifter box. more crap comes down.. missed me.. for once. Promptly strip screw head. Thats ok I have 4 that came with kit. Im sure I have another #12 pan head sheet metal screw around. Thats #2 because the first one was on the orginal try.

Step 31. back to the back one. F-it. beer time.

Step 32. new Day. its All set. 3rd hole drilled for rear mount. its going to work out nice with the new home made mount. things are snug. 1 screw in holding pipes.. everything snug not tight.
Step 32a. check front distance good. hey these end points were separated before ..
Step 32b. rear looks ok, proud by 1/2"
Step 32c. these need to be 1.5" proud
Step 32d. crawl under again.. hmm nice creeper .. slide back. looking good. look left what this that big gap betwen the pipes. s#@$ that pipe has to rotate. shouldnt be that hard. .. wrong. 45 min later. closed gap by 50%. silicon is sticky as crap.
Step 32e. check front. damn im old. mock up hoses. for the n-th time finally looking good. what clamps did this come with. oh yeah already check that those are screw clamps. I want the OG spring clamps. Which ones do I use? Check our favorite sites. everybody is out of stock.

Side quest -- spring clamp
going to upgrade to 2.1 coolant system. (and 2.2 later)
https://webautocats.com/en-us/etka/volkswagen/va/65/016170/
this lists all of them, but the radiator ones are different.
They are 40mm not 47mm
https://belmetric.com/clamp-wide-band-full-tab-constant-tension-9mm-50mm/?
they had them all but the 47's in stock had to get them somewhere else.
Side quest --on going. waiting for delivery.

Step 35. heater hose.
I havent done this yet. but it is going to be challenging as the bulkhead pass through for the coolant / heater hose pipe is really tight. there is no extra room.
in the original the two 1.25" pipes were at the top. and the two heater hoses were at the bottom. now the 2 coolant pipes are diagonal and the heater hoses will have to to in the other opposite corners.

--

update:

Step 36:
try and fit new hoses through old 84 hole. -- fail

Step 37:
try and fit new spring clamps on heater hose -- fail

Step 38:
Hooking up rad hoses on coolant pipes. notice that ends are tight together not like old pipes with good separation. have to figure out how to clock (rotate) pipes to make alignment better.. dammit. this took two days, THe silicon connecting hose is super sticky. eventually I squirted coolant hose in use a wisdom tooth wash syring to allow them to work around. got them good enough. that was two evenings I wont get back.

step 39:
now to new heater hose basically take the 25' hose and cut it in half
try many time to stick through old hole.. 2.5 hrs later this is never going to work.

Step 40: get sawzall.. make cuts to enlarge the crossmember hole. on my back with the tubes still in place.. make cuts 1/4 above center in corners pass side upper, drivers lower.. now use my old metal working skills to manually round over the trim to no sharp edges. This was fun it involved a brass drift and mini-sledge, hearing protection, and large pair of channel locks.

step 41:
hole bigger. dammit must be another difference between 84 and 86. coolant pipe stopped by something else. make hole bigger again.

Step 42:
hole smooth hoses through. -- beer time


All this started because i didnt secure a heater hose and the clamp was banging on the body on our first long trip. causing the westy to overheat.

[jlrftype7]

Epic battle for sure. I can't say what I'd run into if I used the larger 1 1/2" pipes on our '84, since we didn't upsize to them when replacing our coolant pipes.
Went with the stock 1 1/4" pipes, so no body opening adjustments to make, also did not drop the Gas Tank to do it, BUT, did the whole job on a lift at work, so there's that.

I initially used stout Nylon Tie Wraps in places to hold up the pipes where there wasn't a factory bracket, or to tie the two pipes together in spots, but those failed with time, so I switched to Stainless Steel tie wraps from Mc-Master Carr. Those have been in place ever since.
_________________
'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[jlrftype7]

[dobryan]

Nice narrative. I felt I was right there drinking beer as I listened to you cuss...
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[do.dah]

[?Waldo?]

Why didn't you just get the 1.25" pipes? The 1.5" pipes aren't an 'upgrade'. The larger OD was used in the later vans because the wall thickness of the plastic pipes was larger, but the ID was similar to the metal 1.25" pipes. There isn't really a downside to the larger ID of the aftermarket metal 1.5" pipes (other than the added pain of the install), but I don't believe there is any benefit over the 1.25" pipes either as the ID of the 1.25" pipes is already large enough to prevent it from being the limiting factor to the flow.

[gt0954a]

[?Waldo?]

For future reference, it is very easy to bush the 1.25" pipes to fit the 1.5" coolant hoses. I believe that is easier than fitting the 1.5" pipes to a van that originally came with 1.25" pipes.

[Bulli Klinik]

I did the same conversion on my 85; 1.25-1.5. I used a reducer at the engine bay side to adapt to the 1.25 connections in the engine bay. Are there hoses available which go from the 1.5-1.25 connection which do not require a reducer? I'd like to get rid of the reducers.

_________________
PM me about quality metal-work on your vehicle.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[crazyvwvanman]

Yes, there are 1.9 engine hoses that fit 1.5" main pipes. That is how later 85 Vanagons came.

https://vancafe.com/coolant-hose-1-9l-right-upper-bleeder-housing-to-return-pipe/

https://vancafe.com/silicone-right-lower-bleeder-housing-hose-to-feed-pipe-1-9l-1/

Mark

[Bulli Klinik]

Awesome! Thanks.
_________________
PM me about quality metal-work on your vehicle.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs

[AndyBees]

What Waldo said.

................

For what it is worth, in 2013 at the TDI Fest in Bethel, Maine, there was a guy that drove his personally engineered and manufactured TDI powered vehicle (I can barely remember what it looked like) to the event from California.

Anyway, the engine was in the rear with the Radiator up front about the same distance as with a Vanagon. His coolant piping was 1 1/4 inch for the hot coolant going to the Rad and a 1 inch pipe for the return to the engine. His rationale was that the water pump moves coolant more efficiently and faster than we realize. He also said the cooled coolant is more concentrated than the hot coolant, thus the rationale for a smaller return pipe. And, he noted that even a fully opened Thermostat somewhat restricts coolant flow without any negative affects.
_________________
'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI, two trips to Alaska, 2014 & 16. 1989 Tin-top unmolested.
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine, seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003. 1975 Bay hopeful.

[gt0954a]

All I have to say.. well I wish.. i followed the golden rule of old watercooled. If it is not broke..don't touch it. If it is already broke. modify it.

so today. was putting final touches on solar, and screwing in my newly acquired power steering bushings.. very cool.

and i notice. wait is that blue.. yep thats blue. I must have forgotten to tighten a clamp. Check all the clamps. sure enough one is loose. Lets tighten it.. turn.. turn .. pop. grr. I konw that feeling. sure enough one the clamps is skipping worm gear. Now I have a proper leak. It is of course in the middle. and every thing is really tight. I would need a lift to fix this. or to take everything apart again. So I emailed a shop.

On a side note Solar was making 20W in the shade.
Cool water onboard outboard system works.
Dash works now.. Had to re-locate power and ground for plasma dash was loading fuel gauge. Fuel gauge works!. Need to find where I put main key set. Oh well off to travel.

84 westy..
* reconditioned top
* new tent
* new skylight
* assist gas struts -- probably need downsizing
* 200W shadestopper solar panels
__
* popex heater
* renogy MPPT with shunt, and core controller
* New instrument cluster -- awaiting green wire for tach
* New T3 front suspension -- bearings etc.
* New Rad, New Heater Core, Rebuild box
* Vanistan heater valve and air-vent <<--- that is very cool
--
* New leaking coolant lines.

* not yet installed
* Mansispeed EFI
* multiple boxes of parts.

[markswagen]

l changed the wife's 84 from the early cooling system to the late, l only needed to drop the fuel tank down 1/2'' maybe 3/4'' tops, l certainly didn't remove the filler neck, l did cut the original stuff with a sawzall, and cut the band clamp holding the pipes at the bulkhead, and l did run a holesaw through the bulkhead to make space for the bigger pipes.
_________________
markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[?Waldo?]

You can unscrew worm drive clamps all the way to remove and install them on a connection you don't want to take apart.