Pushrods/valves SEEM dead / engine build

[NachoCar]

Morning

I'm trying not to cry on my keyboard. Need suggestions on trouble shooting seemingly stationary pushrods and therefore valves.

I've recently been trying to dial in my timing. I aslo just replaced pushrodtubes on all cylinders . First time no leaks in many years but now the engine will not fire up. It was running after install of tubes but stopped after a very short test drive. I have gas and spark. Decided to reset valves and reset timing to 5 degress btdc.

Turning over engine by hand I had no movement on cylinder 1 & 2. Got kid to turn ignition and still didn't see any movement. Took rocker arms off and did hear a spring pop, not loud. Checked and all springs on that side looked even. Tightened rocker arms a little at a time, alt. sides.

ANy ideas?

I did ensure rods are seated in rocker arms.

Check compression? Seems odd both issues on one side. Could it be something major in bottom end?

Its a dual port 1641 according to Po. it has run pleanty as I have been tweaking timing, carb, etc but only driven 3 VERY short trips.

Stock carb, distributor, fuel pump all rebuilt by 'Pros'

Thank you for your time!

[KTPhil]

I am not of too much help, but it's probably a good thing its just on one side. Since the same lobes work both sides, it's probably not your cam.

I suspect an issue with your pushrods, since that's what recently changed. I'd pull them for a look. While the rocker shaft is off, check that your valve stem ends are all level.

[NachoCar]

Thank you! I'll take pics as well!

[Pruneman99]

Did you check 2 and 4, or just stop on the one side when you found the problem?

[NachoCar]

Have not checked....good point. I will at lunch.

[Pruneman99]

[KTPhil]

Oh, I thought he had checked...ruh-roh. Could the cam gear rivets sheared off? Thinking worst case now...

[NachoCar]

I've been thinking worse case all dang morning. (vomit emoji)

[Pruneman99]

[ashman40]

Spend 10min rotating the crank pulley by hand while you watch valve movement for each cylinder. I agree with KTPhil, if the problem is just limited to cylinder #1 it is not the cam. Cylinder 1 and 3 share the same two cam lobes. If the cam was worn (not unheard of) then both opposing cylinders would equally be impacted.
{Just re-read you original post... it is impacting #1 and #3 }

I'm thinking the spring sound you heard was a valve stuck open slamming shut once you removed the rocker arms. It sort of depends on how the rocker stand came loose from the head? When removing the rocker assembly some valves will be under pressure. If you slowly loosen the 2 nuts holding the rocker stands down the valves should slowly close as the springs will push the valves close. If on the other hand you use an impact gun to quickly remove the stand nuts the stand may pop off all at once and the valves slam shut under spring pressure. My thought is, one or more of the valves are sticking open and are still open after the rocker arms come off and suddenly slam shut a few seconds later.

With the rocker arms installed, rotate the crank until your are at TDC at the end of the compression stroke for #1 (rotor will be pointing to #1 plug wire on the cap). At this point both the #1 valves should be closed. There should be a small amount of play (0.006") between the rocker arm and the valve to indicate the valves are fully closed. If you have a great deal of play, tap the valve retainer with a rubber mallet and see if it springs closed taking up most of the gap. This confirms your valves are getting stuck. This might explain what you were seeing. The valve are getting hung open so you see no movement of the push rods or rockers.

If the above is not your problem, rotate the crank thru 720deg (2 rotations) in 90deg turns (TDC, 90ATDC, BDC, 90BTDC, TDC, 90ATDC, BDC, 90BTDC). After each 90deg rotation check the play at the rocker arms for #1 and #3. Keep in mind which stroke of the 4-stroke cycle the cylinder is in and whether the valve should be open of closed. You should see the rocker move to open/close the valves by almost 0.5". If the play remains mostly constant thru the entire 720deg... you have a problem with the cam lobes or the cam.

Post some pics of what you are seeing.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!}

[KTPhil]

Shoot, I misread also! I "heard" 1&2, not 1&3. BIG difference, sorry for posting misinformation.

Check again and report... thinking vomit emoji, too...

[Pruneman99]

I thought it said 2 and 4 also. Maybe OP edit?

[Multi69s]

Generally when you loose valve movement on 1 & 3, or 2 & 4, you have lost a cam lobe. Yet if you don't have movement on both the intake and exhaust, probably something else is the problem.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
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AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[NachoCar]

Welp.....pulled the valve cover off Drver's side. No movement either.

Guess it's toast. Thanks for input guys.

Think I even have vomit in my nose right now.

[Pruneman99]

[Multi69s]

Did you pull the heads to replace the pushrod tubes, or did you use adjustable ones? if adjustable, pull them out and then try rotating the engine and watch what happens.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

[KTPhil]

How long have you owned this? What does the PO say about it's history? Any documentation of its last rebuild? How was it broken in? ZDDP cam lube added?

All this is just background... sounds like you are in for a teardown now . But these answers might help prevent a recurrence.

[NachoCar]

[NachoCar]

PO was actually an Audi tech. The 'Story' was he had a mechanic with lots'o experince on ACVW's rebuild the long block. I took it with a grain of salt and only paid $3,500 for his project that only had the body chopped, new pans, suspension, and suppsedly bottom engine built. Guess I got my money's worth.

Just been a long 8+ year road to get it road worthy. Now this.

Thanks again!

[goober]

Do you mean you have no valve movement at all when you rotate the engine by hand?

How did you adjust the valves?

I've only played with stock engines. If the valves aren't moving at all maybe pull the oil pump and see how your cam gear is attached.

Didn't some performance cams have bolt on gears?