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Busin
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 213
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 Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 10:11 am Post subject: Engine not cranking |
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| Sorry if this question's been posted before I searched for but couldn't find what I was looking for, And Im having a problem with my engine cranking when I turn the in my 1973 squareback which will turn and start if I turn the key like 30 times but most the time there's nothing. And so far I've removed the cable off the starter cleaned it up (which is a starter I replaced about 6 months age) Checked my battery cables and clean them. Tried tapping the solenoid with a hammer And I could hear the two relays, one under the dash and one under the back seat clicking, so I can't imagine what else could be wrong other than possibly a bad ignition switch or possibly the starter has already gone bad? Appreciate your help |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23358
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| Busin wrote: |
| Sorry if this question's been posted before I searched for but couldn't find what I was looking for, And Im having a problem with my engine cranking when I turn the in my 1973 squareback which will turn and start if I turn the key like 30 times but most the time there's nothing. And so far I've removed the cable off the starter cleaned it up (which is a starter I replaced about 6 months age) Checked my battery cables and clean them. Tried tapping the solenoid with a hammer And I could hear the two relays, one under the dash and one under the back seat clicking, so I can't imagine what else could be wrong other than possibly a bad ignition switch or possibly the starter has already gone bad? Appreciate your help |
Sounds like either an ignition switch (the electrical portion) is on it's way out, or a dead spot in the starter. New parts are getting harder to find with good quality in them (doesn't matter the make either). In my own case I have a push button switch so I can just reach back and engage the starter, as mine has a dead spot in it (it's had it since new about 10 years ago). Basically I'm jumping the terminals on the starter without crawling under the car. I've done that to several of my VW's now as it keeps me from having to get under the car just to start it.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Busin
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| Thanks Bobnotch, so if I climb under the car and jump the starter with a screwdriver and it spins would that mean the ignition switch is bad? |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5552
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2025 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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That would be my bet, since I have purchased brand new switches and they were bad. However, I don't like to spend $$ if I don't have to. Lets do an electrical test just to make sure. Grab a multimeter or a test light, and another person. Ground the black lead of the meter / light on the trans case, then pull the start wire off of the starter solenoid. Place your positive lead in the wire. Next have your helper twist the key and yell on when they twist the key, and off when they let go. Your test light/meter should respond to the on yell. if it doesn't then I would be more comfortable in telling you to buy a switch.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23358
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2025 11:49 am Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
| That would be my bet, since I have purchased brand new switches and they were bad. However, I don't like to spend $$ if I don't have to. Lets do an electrical test just to make sure. Grab a multimeter or a test light, and another person. Ground the black lead of the meter / light on the trans case, then pull the start wire off of the starter solenoid. Place your positive lead in the wire. Next have your helper twist the key and yell on when they twist the key, and off when they let go. Your test light/meter should respond to the on yell. if it doesn't then I would be more comfortable in telling you to buy a switch. |
Yup, I agree. In the old days, you could smack the starter with a hammer to get it to start too (it would dislodge the crud inside). These days it's more likely a quality issue. I've found that jumping with a screw driver can be a good diagnostic tool, but make sure it's OUT of gear and the hand brake is ON, so you don't get ran over.
The switches do age, and get dirt and crap inside them (both parts). But most often the switch is fine. Some have added relays into the starter circuit to take the load off the switch. Myself I feel that it's just something else that could go wrong, but to each his own.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Busin
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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So I've been a little preoccupied to work on this car but the day before yesterday I jacked the car up to jump the starter with a screwdriver and it cranked just fine, so I'm assuming it's the switch I ordered a new one for but believe I made a mistake as I ordered a new ignition switch that came with two keys before I realized that's not the part I need so I ordered this part of it, which is a photo I just found on here. Correct?
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Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13545
Location: Tejas!
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| please also check your trans ground strap |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23358
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2025 11:56 am Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| Busin wrote: |
So I've been a little preoccupied to work on this car but the day before yesterday I jacked the car up to jump the starter with a screwdriver and it cranked just fine, so I'm assuming it's the switch I ordered a new one for but believe I made a mistake as I ordered a new ignition switch that came with two keys before I realized that's not the part I need so I ordered this part of it, which is a photo I just found on here. Correct?
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Yup, that's the electrical part of the switch. You remove the entire switch (tumbler part too) assembly and remove the small set screw to separate them, then install the new electrical part, then put the whole new switch assembly back in. While you have it out, plug the battery back in, and test it with the new switch added and make sure it works. I like to verify it while it's out in the open if I can.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Busin
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2025 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| Thanks for your help as I fixed it and did like Bobnotch said by plugging the new switch in and turning it to see if it cranks before assembling everything again. |
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Busin
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2025 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| So I'm back to the same problem, As after I changed the switch it was starting just fine for about a week until this morning when I turned the key and nothing happened. So, now I'm wondering if there could be some kind of short that's burning out my switches or do you think it's possible they sent me a defective switch? Thanks again for your help. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23358
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2025 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| Busin wrote: |
| So I'm back to the same problem, As after I changed the switch it was starting just fine for about a week until this morning when I turned the key and nothing happened. So, now I'm wondering if there could be some kind of short that's burning out my switches or do you think it's possible they sent me a defective switch? Thanks again for your help. |
Anything is possible these days. Something to keep in mind with the later type 3s is the starter wire runs along side the tunnel (on the right side) and has a plug connector right around the front of the passenger seat. That connection might be loose and causing a hit or miss power connection (start-no start). The back half of that wire goes thru the floor grommet beside the battery straight to the starter. The older T-3s had the starter wire run in the rear harness to almost the left tail light, then across the trans/engine to the starter (it had a large voltage drop). I hope this helps.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Busin
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2025 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| So I ordered another switch and was just about to return the one I bought last week when out of curiosity I hooked up both the replacement ignition and the original one again and turned them with a screwdriver and iboth appear to be cranking the car just fine, So now i'm wondering, could it possibly be a fault with the key mechanism that could cause them not to turn far enough to engage the starterr? Which makes me wonder, As when I first got the car I had problems getting the key to turn after the car sat for twenty five years I fixed with some lithium grease so I who knows" |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23358
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2025 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| Busin wrote: |
| So I ordered another switch and was just about to return the one I bought last week when out of curiosity I hooked up both the replacement ignition and the original one again and turned them with a screwdriver and iboth appear to be cranking the car just fine, So now i'm wondering, could it possibly be a fault with the key mechanism that could cause them not to turn far enough to engage the starterr? Which makes me wonder, As when I first got the car I had problems getting the key to turn after the car sat for twenty five years I fixed with some lithium grease so I who knows" |
It's possible, but kind of rare that the mechanical part of the switch is worn out. Was the original switch (electrical part) made out of metal? Or plastic like the replacement? If it was metal, that might be where the wear came from. It's hard to say when dealing with 45+ year old parts.
It's also why I added a push button switch in my car for when the key switch decided to not work. I could just reach back and turn the engine over with the key on. With the key off, it allowed me to roll the engine over if I needed to.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Busin
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2025 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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Yeah, the original switch.I took out was also a plastic like the new one.
And on a side note while i'm waiting for another switch ( Is the electrical part of the switch) I pulled the lock our of the sleeve and found a lot of grease on it, probable from when I was spraying.Lithium grease into the cylinder to get it to turn, I cleaned up with some rake cleaner, put it back together again but still no luck. And I still think, through the power of deduction, If the electrical part of the switch cranks the engine with a screwdriver but nothing when the lock cylinder is installed then it has to be the lock. No? |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 23358
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2025 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| Busin wrote: |
Yeah, the original switch.I took out was also a plastic like the new one.
And on a side note while i'm waiting for another switch ( Is the electrical part of the switch) I pulled the lock our of the sleeve and found a lot of grease on it, probable from when I was spraying.Lithium grease into the cylinder to get it to turn, I cleaned up with some rake cleaner, put it back together again but still no luck. And I still think, through the power of deduction, If the electrical part of the switch cranks the engine with a screwdriver but nothing when the lock cylinder is installed then it has to be the lock. No? |
That's what it sounds like to me too. It might be time to just replace the entire assembly. ISP and others like Wolfsburg West, sell new lock-switch assemblies. Keep in mind that bug parts can work here, so that might make getting something that will fit easier to find.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Busin
Samba Member
Joined: June 20, 2007
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2025 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Engine not cranking |
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| So I got another electrical part of the switch today I installed and now the car is starting fine again. But I'll see how this one works out and if it happens again then I'll just replace the whole assembly like you Ssa8d as maybe something about block mechanism.Is causing the switch not to turn far enough after a while. |
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