Subaru conversion

[martyrg]

I have a 1978 Westfalia camper bus that I aquired last summer. It is in overall good shape; west coast car - no rust. I've spent the last year going thru the bus, and fixing all the things that go wrong or wear out on a 46 year old vehicle. The bus is running very well now.

My plan is to use the bus for cross counrty vacations, local camping, and going to car shows. No off road travel at all. With that in mind, I want to convert to 2.5L Subaru power. I have done alot of research here on The Samba, Facebook groups, and Youtube. Doing the conversion looks to be well within my fabrication and mechanic skills.

A few questions:
- Are there particular models and / or years that make the better donor cars?
- It is best to avoid CAN-bus cars, correct?
- Belly mount cooling systems are the way to go, yes?

Looking for your comments & opinions on my compoment choices:
- Wire harness conversion by AutoVentures or Busaru
- Engine mouting bar from Busaru
- Throttle body reverser from Busaru
- Cooling system from Fellows Speed Shop or Small Car Performance
- Engine adaptor and clutch package from KEP
- Exhaust system from Van Cafe or Small Car Performance
- Shortened oil pan and pickup from Out Front Motorsports
- Do I need a coolant reverser manifold?
- Is it worth it to just buy the whole kit from Small Car Performance @ $9K?
https://smallcar.com/t2-bus-complete-conversion-kit/
- VW manual trans with a R/P change for fewer RPM's at Freeway speeds
from Rancho

[Ceckert64]

It’s definitely worth the conversion on a baywindow, I did a budget swap on my bus in April 2024 and have put 10,000 miles on it already. I just drove it out this morning to watch the northern lights. My swap was around 3k but that was a lot of DIY and ugly but it’s been amazing. I tried to document it all in the 1971 Fitz thread in my signature.

I believe you want pre 2004, past that they went to drive by wire and it’s gets to be more issues.

For the shortened oil pan, I don’t have one and it’s been okay, and I do a decent amount of off-roading too. But it definitely is a good idea.

I liked everything I got from Busaru for my swap and they have good videos.

It seems like you got a good plan so far, it’s not as hard of a swap as it is made out to be sometimes.
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1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Yellow Tin Top Westfalia -Sold
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop EJ22 swap
“Rome” 91 Syncro

[Shonandb]

[deathman68]

I'm five years deep into my build and quit tracking cost a while back, but my build post is in my sig if you want to see the journey. One thing to note as you plan out your build is that you need to make sure that whatever "off the shelf" components you're sourcing play nicely together. For example, you will likely want to use the engine hanger and exhaust from the same vendor to avoid fitment issues.

As others have already noted, you can make the build as economical or expensive as you want. With some mechanical/electrical aptitude you can save yourself a lot of money. Sometimes it's just worth saving/paying to avoid the headache all together. Or if you're like me, you spend most of your time perpetuating the headache by taking on most everything solo. To each his own! Happy building and feel free to shoot me a pm if you have any questions along the way.
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1973 Riviera “Annie”
Build Thread: 1973 Riviera+Subaru 2.5+5 Speed
EJ25+5 Speed Conversion Part/Cost Tracker

[skills@eurocarsplus]

have jeff (autoventures) do your harness

avoid CAN BUS. Most people don't understand rudimentary electronics let alone can bus

lot's of info out there. take your time. it's well worth it. This summer all of the swaps I have done are closing in on 310K miles (collectively) and the only failures have been 1 (dealer even) water pump and a flaky coolant sensor.

Other than that, everyone has literally just put gas in them and drove. User Gashog has been from TX to MN to NH a couple of times now since we completed his bus.
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[W1K1]

Looking for your comments & opinions on my component choices:

- Wire harness conversion by AutoVentures or Busaru : I used the modern bay for my harness, auto ventures wasn't taking any work at the time.

- Throttle body reverser from Busaru : I used the reverser and throttle cable kit from RJS https://rjes.com/induction-system-products-subaru-powered-beetle-bay-window-bus-t2a-t2b/

- Cooling system from Fellows Speed Shop or Small Car Performance
i went with the system that VDubnut uses, afco radiator with the outlets moved, and two 13" Spal vans. Have a look at the radiator system from the modern bay co too

- Exhaust system from Van Cafe or Small Car Performance : KEP
I didn't care for the exhaust systems that cross over behind the engine twice and generate a lot of heat on the timing belt & housing.

- Shortened oil pan and pickup from Out Front Motorsports
send in your existing pan for a discount on the shortened pan

- VW manual trans with a R/P change for fewer RPM's at Freeway speeds
from Rancho : Benco did mine
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[martyrg]

I took the first big step this past weekend and purchased my donor car. It's a wrecked 2002 Subaru Outback wagon. 2.5L, auto trans, 107,000 miles.

I'll start harvesting parts in a couple of weeks. Besides the engine, trans, wire harness & relays, and the ECM, what else do I need to grab?

[alaskadan]

So what does the afco radiator with outlets moved cost? I've done 2 bay conversions up here and had custom radiators made for both. One was steel/brass and one was aluminum. IIRC one was 400 bucks and the other was 450. Made to my specs length, width and number of cores. Inlet and outlets pointing back. I kept them simple, just the inlet, outlet and bleed screw.

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Vee Dub Nut]

Seems like you're off to a good start.

Several of the posters here all have nice successful and documented builds on this forum. Take some time to read through them. Mine is linked in my signature.

Remember, be careful cherry picking things from multiple builds. Sometimes success is all in the combo (especially in regards to critical systems like the cooling system).

Other feedback in BOLD below:

[W1K1]

[danfromsyr]

there's no way I'd use a custom radiator underneath a bus.
a vanagon radiator already has both outlets pointing to the 'rear'
a thermostat boss
and has a 10mm threaded bleeder boss in the top.
the plus is that if you hit debris that compromises the radiator a new one can be ordered in 1 to 3 days.

add in that they'll easily provide ample cooling for 165hp. even with limited airflow.

but it's not the 'popular' cu$tom shiney jobbie that's pushed around here.
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[W1K1]

[martyrg]

Thanks to everyone for the replys - very helpful!

Here is a little more background on the bus, along with an update on my progress with the conversion. Also some pictures.

October 30, 2024
Last summer (2023) I was lucky enough to win an eBay auction and acquire a 1978 VW Westfalia camper bus (see pics). It is a California vehicle with nothing in terms of rust. The bus is in overall good condition. The exterior suffers from a poorly done repaint; I’ll take care of that at a later date. It also came with that awful spare tire carrier mounted on the nose of the bus (I absolutely hate how that looks). That got removed shortly after I took possession of the bus. A little welding, some primer and single stage paint and you’d never know it was there; I even got the round VW emblem mounted in its place. Otherwise, the body is straight and problem free.

The interior is a mix of good and not so good. The good is the upholstery is new and in great condition. The carpet is good with no rips or stains. I replaced the door cards, added a new wood rimmed steering wheel, and added a Berg bus shifter - REALLY NICE!! (I highly recommend it).

The not so good . . . anything plastic is cracked or disintegrates when touched. Much of the laminate is peeling off the cabinets. The edge banding is warped and distorted. Forty-five years in the blazing California desert sun takes its toll. I’ll make and install new cabinets this winter.

The engine ran but had a stall when you gave it full throttle. I went through the engine and replaced all the rotted hoses, vacuum lines, and all four fuel injectors. The engine is now running great. While I was at it, I went through all the wiring and corrected several issues.

This past October we took the bus on its first (with us, anyways) long trip. We went to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan – 1000 miles round trip. The bus never missed a beat. However, the wind whistles inside the bus were bad enough that I had to stop and get ear plugs for the rest of the trip! I now have new seals for both doors and windows, including the wing windows.

Early on during the trip, it became clear that the bus was underpowered. It struggled to make it up mild to moderate grades. This is with only two people and very little luggage in the bus. After doing a lot of research here on The Samba and various Facebook forums, I have decided to go with Subaru power. This will take me from the VW engine at ~67 HP to ~165 HP with the Subaru engine; that’s a 2 ½ times increase in power!

After searching through Facebook marketplace, I was able to find a wrecked 2002 Subaru Outback with a 2.5L engine and only 107K miles. Only $550 and it ran and was drivable!

My 13-year-old grandson is a budding mechanic. I’ve taught him how to repair his and his brother’s bicycles, as well as helping me with various car repairs. He recently got a Craftsman socket and ratchet set and was dying to use it. So, I put him to work taking out the dash and removing the wiring harnesses from the donor car. The boy next door, about the same age, came over to help.

Between the two of them they managed to remove both doors, take out the seats, remove the console, shifter, and parking brake. They then pulled out the top of the dash, the instrument cluster, the steering wheel and column. Nothing got broken! Then they began the process of removing the wiring harnesses.

They quickly learned how frustrating it can be to get electrical connectors apart. After a little coaching, they learned how valuable a small screwdriver is in unlocking connectors! After this, they plowed through it all and had the harness out and on the ground in 4 - 5 hours (see pics). I was very proud of them.

The following weekend we began engine removal. With a little help from me, the boys removed the hood, grill and fenders. I cut out the radiator core support and then removed the bumper support. The boys continued to systematically remove & disconnect parts that went to the engine from the rest of the car. After a few hours we were ready to pull the engine. My neighbor (and former Roush Racing crew chief) stopped by to see what we were up to - perfect timing! With his help we had the engine and trans out, split the trans from the engine, and had the engine mounted to the engine stand.

So that’s where things stand right now. The scrap yard is coming tomorrow to pick up the remains of the Subaru Outback donor car. I plan on putting a new short block in the Subaru engine. I need to put my parts list together and order my parts – only genuine Subaru OEM parts. Short block, Water Pump, Oil Pump, Timing Belt Kit, Engine Gasket and Seal Kit, Head Bolts and a Thermostat. What else should I be ordering?
Next up is engine teardown, cleaning, priming and painting and sending the heads out for rebuilding. More to come.

November 2, 2024
Yesterday the scrap yard picked up the carcass of the donor Outback and gave me a check for $275.00. Not too bad . . .

I also spoke to Jeff from Auto Ventures about doing my wire harness conversion. Many people online say he is the best at it. He advised if I was going to use a throttle body reverser, I needed to also send in the harness underneath the intake manifold. After an hour or so, I had that harness out. I tossed it in the box with all the other harnesses. I sealed up the box and went off to FedEx; $66.00 later, the harness is on its way to Jeff in Wisconsen.

I usually take some pictures as I take something apart, to aid in the reassembly process. I never seemed to have the picture I need when a question comes up during reassembly. This time I’m making a point of taking lots and lots of detailed pictures of as the engine teardown progresses. That’s all for now. More to come.

[W1K1]

Good deal on the donor

Are you using the Subaru transmission or the bus transmission?
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/jim_martin_engine_build.php

1973 super
1965 squareback 1500E
1971 bay window westy- subi swap

[martyrg]

I'm going with the VW manual. The plan is to change the ring and pinion and third gear / fourth gear for a better match to the Subie power band.

[W1K1]

[Shonandb]

While the engine is out, I would recommend removing the firewall to the fuel tank and changing out all your gas tank vent hoses and take a good look at your fill hoses and rubber elbow at the gas cap location. Also, it might be a good time to install gasoline shut off valves on the tank outlets to make changing filters etc easier.

Your donor engine doesn't have many miles on it. Do you need to buy a long block at this point or do you suspect it was driven hard and feel it's best to get a 0 mile engine instead?
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76 Westy with a 2.5L Subaru SOHC + Vanagon (010) Automatic Transaxle
Build & Trip Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=758760
Previous 1973 Panel Bus:
Click to view image

[martyrg]

Given the 2.5L's reputation for excessive oil consumption, I'm thinking now is the best time to invest in a new short block. It will get new head gaskets in the process of putting the motor back together, so that should take care of the other frequent problem these engines have.

My goal is to be able to take this bus on long trips and not worry about relaibility . . . and to have enough power available to handle the Rocky mountains and the Serria Nevada’s with ease.

I like the shut off valves for the gas tank lines - thanks for the tip!

[Shonandb]